Translator's note Hello, welcome, good afternoon. I'm very happy to see so many familiar faces already. I'm very happy to be here this afternoon. We have now on our program the tribute talk dedicated to our tribute guest of this year, Fabrice de Welz. And I would like to thank, I would like to take the opportunity to thank our partner, the Kunstuniversität Wien, Art University Linz, Zeitbasierte und Interaktive Medienkunst, und namentlich Joachim Smetschka, der uns seit Jahren bei dieser Veranstaltung unterstützt. Vielen Dank dafür. Thank you. And now I would like to introduce to our guest of honor, Fabrice, and the moderator of this afternoon, our beloved colleague, Neil Young from the UK. And please welcome our guest and our moderator. Thanks. Hello. And as you will find out very soon, Neil is much better in doing things like that, like talking and asking questions. I will hand over the microphone to you, Neil, and I'll take over Master of Ceremony. Thank you very much. I'm blushing already. This is a bad start. So thank you, Sabina. Thank you to all of our sponsors and the people who've made this tribute happen to Fabrice de Welz. Before we get on with the tribute, we're going to show, for those of you who have seen Inexorable, which is the new film by Fabrice de Welz, you know it's a very special cinematic experience. And for those of you who haven't, we have the trailer for the film to give you a flavor of the world of Fabrice de Welz. So before we begin, please enjoy the trailer for Inexorable. um I love you. A very enigmatic extract from the film. So welcome, Fabrice, so everybody can hear us. Thank you. And yeah, it was sort of odd because the film itself has a sort of a slightly different vibe, a more sort of, you know, there were some extreme moments in the film, which we don't glimpse in this little extract. But I was nice to see a little touch of it anyway. There were some extreme moments in the film which we don't glimpse in this little extract, but there we are. It was nice to see a little touch of it anyway. So, yeah, we are thrilled to have you, and I think it's fascinating to watch the five films that we have. Also, you did your shorts program this morning. And to sort of put, there obviously are many connections between your films, between themselves, which you make obvious with things like character names and certain recurring preoccupations. And even though each story is distinct, it obviously builds into a body of work. So we'll try to cover that and some of your techniques and your influences and your dreams and your view of cinema. Maybe we can do in the next hour or so. And then we have a chance for, obviously, questions from the audience. As I say, we're showing five of your films. There are two films which are in your filmography which we are not showing, which are Cult 45 and Message from the King. Message from the King is an American film. This is a European film festival. But Cult 45 is a slightly different story. So I thought we might just clear out of the way those two films and then get on to the films that we're showing so could you maybe start by sort of briefly saying what was the story with Cold 45 and Message from the King what happened with those? Well it's it happened when you made films sometimes you are you've been called from from producer to to just like a director to hire and to make a film and for call 45 i was i was i really was uh connected to the script your original script and then you have to face reality of those producers and that's that peculiar production company it was a thomas longman you know thomas longman is a hair is a son of claude berry he's a very famous french and producer french director and producer. So he has a lot of money and he's a very twisted man, very twisted. So I had to face a lot of dysfunction during that production. I have my part of responsibility, of course, but at the end, you know, I'm going to be short. I was fired of the production, and they finished the film without me, so it was very painful for me, because, you know, that's why I realized exactly that I'm not a director to hire, in a way, because when you direct a film, it's not a date it's a marriage you understand what i mean it's uh you're fully committed and i am fully committed i'm passionate in every aspect of of of the process so uh it was very very painful the divorce was really really painful and hopefully I had a finance film alleluia practically I have to say save my life as a film director because I was very very bad bad situation at the time because cult 45 did get released in 2014 which is it's a french uh thriller cop thriller shall we say yeah but you have to imagine that the company don't clap as you train win five oscar with the artist at the time so they were at the top of the food chain at the time uh well the dysfunction of that company you know they are very well known in france i don't want to be too exhaustive about that, but they are very, very, very complicated people, addicted people. So it's been very complicated. And for the American one, you know, it's another story. I've been chosen by Chadwick Boseman, who passed away Though Black Panther I mean Before he was Black Panther because they've seen Hallelujah and said oh, that's the director. I want to I want to work with so I get the script and it was the Campbell brother the son of John le Carré, who had that company. And the script was very, very strong. And Ewan financed the film, and Ewan has a very taken-like option of the film. And David Lancaster, who finally joined, who was the producer of Drive and Nightcrawler and blah, blah, joined the Conrad brothers. And they were more on a drive-like, you know. But those two visions were complicated to get in harmony, you know. So I had to face a lot of problems in a different way. But it's the game. In the States, it's the game. But once again again after the American experience I realized that you know I prefer to go back in my country and try to do exactly what I want because once again it's a marriage and I want to be fully fully engaged in every aspect of the process as I say I wanted to talk about those two films and kind of get them out of the way. Then we can focus on the films you made in Belgium, the five feature-length films. Because what I think is fascinating about your career is that clearly you have seen many American films and you have seen many films which are not European, but you've always tried to do genre films in a European context, in a Belgian context, in fact. And so it's kind of interesting that you go to France for one film and it doesn't work out, and then you go to the US, and the dream of many filmmakers is, do you make an urban thriller in Los Angeles with Chadwick Boseman and Alfred Molina and Luke Evans and people like this? And in a way, it's kind of, as a young filmmaker, a lot of people dream of going to Los Angeles and making a film there and you did it then you came back for these other two films and I say Belgian because I read an interview with you where you talked about Belgian cinema and how it doesn't really exist anymore we have Flemish cinema and we have Walloon cinema and the funding is is separate but if we go back to the Belgian filmmakers who were making, let's say, genre films in the 60s and 70s, Andre Delvaux, Harry Kummel, they were making Belgian films. Now, this is something that people who aren't familiar with the Belgian setup may not quite understand what the difference is. So what is the difference and why do you think it's important that there is a Belgian cinema? Well, Belgium is a twisted country, you know, with different languages. You have Brussels with a state city, just like Hong Kong, just like, you know, it's practically a state city. Then you have the Flemish part, who's practically independent. Financially, they are independent. independent, politically they are completely independent. Then you have the Walloon part, and then you have the German part. So it's a very tiny country with different, you know, different courants, you know, ideas and cultural aspects. And I think during the 70s, before the Federal, some of the, there is no industry. There were completely no industry. And some of the Flemish and the French film director, they were able to unite the French cultural and the German one, you know? Le réalisme magique, that's why they call the réalisme magique. And I was always impressed by that idea to have some French element because I'm mostly French, you know? I've been raised watching French TV, French culture, but my difference is I'm from Brussels, it's tiny difference, but in fact, more or less, I'm culturally French. But I have some background, some ID because I'm Belgian, because I grew up in the Ardennes and with that diversity of culture of German, you know, flavor in a way. So I was always attached to that idea of watching André Delvaux, mostly Harry Kummel, not for all his films, but the reunification of those two trends. And now, since the federal, you can see, because there is different funds, and there is an industry that mostly the Belgian-French director, they made film with French stars, financed by France, and they are very, mostly it's kind of the same thing that French cinema. And the Flemish part is very close. They have an obsession to going to Hollywood. So it's very strange. It could change very, you know, for example, I have a friend, Felix van Groningen, that is going to be. So it's very strange. It could change very. For example, I have a friend, Felix van Groeningen, that is going to be in Cannes. He made a movie in the States. He faced more or less the same problem than me. But he go back to Belgium, and he tried to make his own stuff. Hollywood is always appealing for many, many reasons, mostly because the casting is so great. And I still receive many offers sometimes, but it will depend, you know? I need to protect now because I get older and I didn't have the same period of time and I want to be focusing on very absolute projects. But you know what I mean, it's the limit and it's the richesse of the Belgian cinema. It's a very melting pot of different trends and currents, I mean. Because obviously from the Walloon side, we have the Darden brothers making their films often, as you say, with the French actors. And they are the kind of, you know, the big famous international Belgian arthouse films. And as you say, the Flemish, who would be the biggest Flemish names? Lucas Dant is Flemish? Yeah, Lucas Dant is Flemish, but it's from Brussels. You know, because you never tell to a Walloon who lives in Brussels that he's a Walloon. You know, that doesn't work. It's mostly with the Flemish. Brussels is, once again, Brussels is Brussels. But I don't know exactly. You know, for example, to give you a very de facto, an example, very solid. I have Peter Van Ness, who is a Flemish film director. He's my neighbor in Brussels. And when I met him, it's just like I met someone from China. Culturally, we didn't share the same language. We didn't share any background. We didn't share anything. But we are Belgium, both of us, and we live in the same city. So that's Brussels, you know. I mentioned Delvaux and Harry Kummel. Kummel's most famous film is probably Daughters of Darkness, Le Rouge Olave with Delphine Seyrig, and Malpertuis, and he worked with Orson Welles also, and people like that. And so when you were growing up in Brussels and in the Ardennes area, as a sort of teenager or before that, were you exposing yourself to those films, the Belgian genre films? Or were you only watching like George Romero and John Carpenter? What was your sort of cinephile starting point? Well, first it was the exploitation, the horror exploitation, the Italians exploitation, the nasties, you know, all the nasties. I think I always had this great pleasure to... I have a voice. You know, I think for being a filmmaker, you have to be a voyeur. Honestly, I really believe that. So I was very, very obsessed by that idea of the nasties, especially those days. And it was also an adventure to share we were um we were watching those nasty all together you know uh we had a lot of fun we comment we we we make fun we make jokes it was great uh you're how old at this point, like 13, 14? Yeah, yeah, I was in boarding school, and we were talking about all the nasty, all the porn at the time, I have to say, because we were surrounded by only men, you know, so from 7 to 17, you know, it's a long way without any woman, you know, in my life. So it was complicated. So we were very obsessed with all those nasties, different things, you know, underground culture. We have a great appetite for that, for that kind of culture, for something who could resist all the dogma we had to face at school and in boarding school. Because once again, I was raised by the Jesuits. So it was a Catholic boarding school. Yeah, very, very Catholic. So how do you get to watch video nasties and porn films in a Catholic boarding school? Because I had the weekend I had the weekend and and My mother allow me not to watch porn believe me, of course, but she allowed me to watch all the VHS So I remember the Saturday was the day so I remember the Saturday was the day we went for shopping and my mother allowed me for two hours to stay in the video club and I was completely you know, absorbed by all the jackets of the VHS with gorgeous women you know, from very exotic Italian films and stuff like that and and Howard and all those stuff. So I was I was eating all those film and I was bring I bring, you know, a lot of film during the weekend. And after that, you know, when I was going to school, I asked to there is a program, a film program. And I, you know, noticed all the film that I wanted my mother taped for me. You see? So my mother helped me a lot. And, of course, with my friends, you know, we had during the station, you know, between the two train, we talk, we share some video, nasty video, porn. But it was another time. Pornhub doesn't exist and all those, there is no streaming. There is a context. The porn was more romantic in a way. It was shot on 35. There is some great story, a sense of pleasure, a sense of interdit, forbidden, and a sense of pleasure, and a sense of sensuality. So I grew up watching those films. And then, of course, when I get to the teenager, I was tried by many films. For me, L'année Zéro, year one was Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I realized that it could be hard. How old were you at this point? I don't know, 15, 14. I think so. I saw it on the VHS and I was blown away, really blown away. Really. I mean, I was physically blown away by the film. At that point, when you're watching at 14 and 15, you're watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre, are you starting to sort of see what a director does? Because obviously when you first watch films, you think the actors are just making it up and some cameras there. But obviously with a film like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, you can see a directorial hand there. Were you looking at it in that way or were you just purely taking it as a visceral? Yeah, I take it viscerally. Because I didn't know nothing about, you know... We were shooting with my friends some... I remember with the old VHS, you know, we were shooting kind of Friday 13 with my friend, you know, Jason Voorhees, stuff like that. We make fun. But, you know, it was fun. That kind of horror was fun. It was silly. Texas Chainsaw Massacre looks so real. Looks a completely different experience at the time. So I was blow away i was um i was unprepared to that i was completely in shock and i hate it and i was i was completely you know on me and and and say what what what what is that what what why why why i react like that and then i i try to understand where it come from what is the story about and then that's how i discover hitchcock for example because i i realized at one point that tasha smansaker was made from the same starting story with ed gein you know visc Wisconsin, that Hitchcock made Psycho, and then I discovered Psycho, and I discovered a new world. And then, you know, it's an arborescence. You know, cinema, it's always you have one spot, and then it brings you to another spot, and then it brings you to another, to another, to another. And it's endless. Endless. And that's great. They keep making them. So you discover H hitchcock through psycho and then are you thinking wow this is a great horror director who's making nightmarish horror movies and then you discover that he's making sort of suspense and some completely different kinds of films because if you watch even this clip here in inexorable you can see that it's going more into let's say with hitchcock morellbound or Notorious or those kinds of films. And did you then sort of explore Hitchcock and sort of think, ah, suspense films, this could also be interesting? I explored Hitchcock years after. I mean, it was mostly when I was preparing my first short film. Someone offered me the talk between Truffaut and Hitchcock. And he said to me, if you want to learn about cinema, there is only one book. And that's the book. It's a long conversation between François Truffaut and Hitchcock. And so at the time, I rewind all the Hitchcock film based on what I read. And I learned a lot based on that. And I learned a lot. I read it just like a very, very devourish appetite to understand. I don't think I had the maturity to fully completely understand it but I was impressed and still now you know before I before I started I started to shoot a film I always rewatch some H Koch film not to enjoy it because I know know Hitchcock film by heart, but just to have a better idea of the grammar, you know? The technical aspect. I think you can learn everything from Hitchcock. And that's... Friedkin said the same thing. You don't need to go to cinema school. You have to watch Hitchcock, Hitchcock, Hitchcock. And I think it's probably true, yeah. And of course, he would storyboard everything. Everything's planned in advance. And Hitchcock said making the film for him was kind of boring. He'd already made the film in his head. And do you work in that way? Do you storyboard? No, no, no. Once again, Hitchcock is a genius, just like Claude Chabrol or Park Chun-wook or Bon Jovi, who have very, very, very great cerebral mind. I work in a much more visceral way. That's why I try to do an inexorable. I try to calm down my intuition and try to be a little bit more elaborate and articulate in in in the genre you know so i that's what i try to do especially on that film because i i i had the feeling and maybe i'm wrong but that's the that's a big step in my in my in my in my journey as a filmmaker and i and i I need that journey to prepare my next step, you know, which will be more ambitious. And we will see. We will see the fact, too. But do you understand what I mean? I mean, it's a... I can... I have a problem. It's not a problem, but it's the way I work. It's the way I am. My pulsion is always stronger. My intuition is always stronger. So I had to, and it gives me a lot of trouble in my life because sometimes I'm overwhelmed by my emotion and by my impulsivity. So that's not the case of Hitchcock, of all those great film directors, because they are very, very methodic and very cerebral. And that's why I try, we can talk about Robert Sturmbach, or we can talk about Dario Argento, all those great guys who create something visually incredibly profound and with very well design. I mean. Is Psycho, would you say Psycho is still your favorite Hitchcock film? Oh, that's complicated. It changed. I think my favorite one, it's probably because it's a very very twisted love story that's notorious I love so much I love the dilemma of the characters and it's Cary Grant and Claude Rains Claude Rains is fantastic but I love Vertigo also because Vertigo you can watch it over and over and over and over again it's always bringing you to another understanding. And I remember at the Cinémathèque in Los Angeles, at the Rialto, I was able to watch it in a 35mm print. And I remember that the American audience laughed all the time, but very désynchronized of us Europeans. They laugh when, why are you laughing? And that's, you know, spending time in Los Angeles, and it's Los Angeles, it's not deep South America. You can realize that they look the same, practically the same. We watch their film, but culturally, they're completely different. Do you see Hitchcock as an American filmmaker or as a European filmmaker, or both? Both. I think it's... I never ask myself that question. It's hypnotical. When you were talking about how Hitchcock makes films and the storyboarding and not getting involved, I recently re-watched Marnie, which is a great film, obviously, and the dark-haired actress, whose name I'm forgetting, said that there was a scene where she's at the window and she has to look out and she sees Sean Connery and Tippi Hedren and she's desiring Sean Connery, obviously. And he said that Hitchcock actually touched her face and made the expression like a sculptor. And she was like, you know, Hitchcock's, I mean, these days it might be a problem, but she said Hitchcock's making my features in a certain way. And that was how he got that. And I've never heard of Hitchcock doing that with actors. But you touch your actors. I know yeah I'm sorry do you still touch them in a good way with their consent of course yeah because I'm I touch yeah I touch I love touch and when you're casting actors you will say to them you will you obviously you're not going to cast an actor who if you touch them, they're going to, you know. No, but it's part of the process. I talk a lot during the takes and I touch them but not in a very constructive way, you know. I'm not loony to touch the actors because I want to touch, you know. It's just to, I can interrupt a scene I can erupt in a scene and and and and um and take an actor I bring him to a to a different spot but once again with their consent at one point they are surprised at the beginning and you know now we are a small family you know my my my team, you know, we know each other for a long time. Everybody knows kind of how we work together. And so they integrate, the actors integrate a kind of very strong family. There is a lot of love and bienveillance. So everybody is happy. And suddenly when the actors, they understand that, it's okay you know it's okay so it's it's fun to be on a fabrice de well set because yeah it's very funny if you watch it's like if you watch a film like vinyan where everybody's drenched in water and going through mud and and you know all of your films lauren lucas ends up covered in blood with his head shaved and you know then as soon as you cut everybody everybody's joking and stuff? Well, that's not a question for me. You should ask the team and the actor. But I think we have fun. We have fun because it's very passionate. I'm a very passionate man in every aspect of my life. I'm very... That's the way I am, you know? So I can transmit that passion, especially on the set, because on the set is the blessing moment, you know, for me. It's really a moment that I cherish a lot because it's the expression of, I love the set. I love being surrounded by people. I love talking to, sharing and contaminate all the crew to the vision. I think it's, yeah, it's true, it's really great. Contaminate, it's like David Cronenberg might contaminate this idea. But did you ever want to be an actor? Do you have this desire to act? Yeah, I wanted when I was a kid, because when I was watching films, I didn't understand there is a crew and there is a film director and there is a location. You don't know exactly how it goes. And yeah, I have a huge love for theater. I study theater. I study at Conservatoire, so I have a very strong acting formation. But I realized that I don't want to depend on the desire of others. I want to be my own, you know, vegan of... Not vegan. That's something else. But you understand what I mean I want to be yeah, I want to be in charge of my own desire so and honestly I'm a terrible actor I think I would be interested to see you I mean Dario Argento just had his first acting in a real role and he's great I want to go back to a couple of things you mentioned. When you asked your mother to record this and that, and it was cannibal apocalypse and the stab of the victim, was she ever saying, oh, Fabrice, please, can't we do some nice films? No. She was accepting? Yeah, but on TV there was no cannibal holocaust and stuff like that. I remember one time it was Les Valseuses by Bertrand Blier. And I was watching that and she gets insane. She gets furious. Because it's too sexy. Because it's too sexy. And I was very young, but I was so impressed by that. And I remember she was very mad at me at the time. Did you ever meet Toby Hooper, director of Texas Chainsaw? Yes, I met him. Did you speak to him or were you two in all? No, I spoke to him. You know, with Hallelujah, I was at the fortnight a few years ago and he received the carousel door at the time. And Edouard Wendrop, who was running the fortnight, he made a great present for me. He show Hallelujah just before Texas Chainsaw Massacre because he knew my love for Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And Tommy Hopper watched the film and I had a long talk with him. But it was very difficult to understand because he had that terrible accent from the South. So it was difficult. And I spent time with him at Strasbourg a few months after. And did you watch him watching Alleluia? Were you sort of nervously looking on? No, no. We're kind of jumping a little bit, but I want to get back to the moment when you decided to study film. Because as you say, you only studied film for one year, I believe I'm right in saying. At INSAS, you had one year there? Yeah, but it was theater. Oh, so you never actually studied film oh because as you say you only studied film for one year i believe i'm right in saying at insas you had one year yeah but it was theater oh you so you never you never actually studied film no but we had we had some some some stuff you know we we had some uh some some classes i remember at the time for example you know there is um for at the jesuit we were able to watch some Rossellini films for example and I was quite impressed by some of the Rossellini's films but some resist completely and I remember at L'Insace once again you understand that for watching film it's transmission it's very pedagogy, you have to transmit a passion, some tools to understand a little bit more deeper. And at L'Insace, we had the possibility to study Voyage en Italie by Rossellini, and I didn't get anything of the film. I said, what, It's a boring film. My God, it's terrible. And I was, I was, and I didn't get why it was such a big thing at the time. And now it's one of my favorite films, of course. But, and the teacher, you know, gives us some tools to perfectly understand, but in a very, very, very passionate and generous way. And I always, I think it's very important to transmit, you know, just like the art of being a critic. I think, and I understand, you know, the critic, they have a job to do, but, you know, Jean Douchet, who's a very famous one, who said, the art of critique is the art to love. And I think when you love something, you are more able to transmit to someone else, especially for young generation. You can transmit that love and that intimacy with a film. And it's always a grain that you understand what I mean. So that's why I think cinema is purely pedagogy. So there is an element of teaching and a or a transmission of knowledge transmission of passion. Yes in cinema I think so. I think so. I think it's always There is something that you can communicate you can talk with them because your films are very there's a very sensual element in your films You know, that's the colors are strong and the emotions are strong and you craft very intense situations. Yeah, but that's a technical aspect and we can talk about that technical aspect but if I have to talk about my cinephile life, when I share films and friends of my son, because, you know, I have a huge, huge, huge DVD tech, you know, and I give, you know, there is so many films that, you know, sometimes I give them, you know, to kids, and I organize a cine club to my place with young kids, you know, especially my, the friends of my son, or the friends of my daughter. And I used to make with them a cine club every week. What kind of films were you showing? Everything. We made a William Wyler cycle. We made a Pedro Almodovar cycle. And my daughter was shocked by the early Almodovar, for example. She hated it. Say, what is that? And now she's talking about it. And she's talking, of course, they were quite little. And I don't realize all the time what's good or bad for kids. I have to say that's my limit. If you show a night portrait to a young kid at 10, it could be problematic. But, you know, it's always... I think be shocked, be pushed, be... Yeah, I think it's always good. So it's not just, you can't just appreciate a film on the brain level, you have to have something else going on. And so, as you say, you show them the films, but the idea is that they will then want to watch the films in the cinema, presumably, because just watching this little clip here, you couldn't really see how dark it was and you prefer to still make films on celluloid, on 35 and 16 millimeter. And so the experience of being in the cinema is presumably what you want them to want to get into. Yes, it's always better. But once again, my generation grew up watching VHS. I discovered Evil Dead in VHS I rediscover The Exorcist on VHS I discover The Sorcerer on VHS so you know cinema is always better but you know that's why I'm not completely against about to streaming. The problem I have with streaming today, it's the globalization. Everything looks the same, tastes the same, smells the same. And I think cinema is always a question of point of view or perspective. But you can express, you can dig an idea that's been told and told and told and told. What's the difference is how you're going to articulate that idea or that emotion. That brings cinema to a very sensitive art form. It's the point of view. And you can watch on Netflix. Unfortunately, it's a little bit always the same thing. And even, nobody talks about mise-en-scene anymore. In 20, I don't want to play like an old granny, you know. But nobody talks about mise-en-scene. Everybody's talking about casting, how much they get paid, and how much the budget is, what's the box office, but nobody talks about the mise-en-scene. And I think, once again, cinema is always about mise-en-scene. Cinema is the art form of the film director, just like theater is the art form of the actors. But, you know, cinema is the playground of the filmmaker. Isn't that because Netflix and streaming, it's television? I mean, it looks like there are films, but it's basically a TV that you're watching, I would say. Yeah, but sometimes you have exception, of course. I mean, there have been great TV shows, and we can say Twin Peaks is, you know, extremely well, has lots of mise-en-scene in Twin Peaks. You know, there's no shortage of that. So let's go back to when you do your short film in 99, it has success. Then five years later, you get to make Calvaire. Now, some people, when they make their first film, they put everything in that they think of because they may never get to make another one. And I rewatched it yesterday. And, you know, you said in the introduction that for you, it's a very humorous film and you were surprised that people were taking it so seriously but when you made Calvaire did you have this idea of like I better make this as as Duelsian as possible because it might be the last one no I never thought about that I was sure that I was I wanted to dedicate my life to cinema because cinema is the big love of my life, honestly. When I say that, I shock my kids. But it's true. Cinema is a religion. For me, it's... And you always want to bring erratic to religion. So I have that in my life and it saved me. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty sure about that. I have that. So it's very sensitive for me. And I don't understand why sometimes film director don't care about cinema or, or, but I have, but I don don't think I don't say I'm right but you know sometimes my love for cinema is so huge that's when I saw people that in heretic you know and it's just like you are just like a fanatic about cinema you know because you want people who enjoy cinema you want them to to love cinema the way you love. So when I do my first feature, I went through a very difficult time because I spent five years trying to get the money and nobody wants it. Nobody wanted the film. Because they read the script and they said, this is too much. What's that shit? You're crazy? A man? What's another man? In the village? What is this about? But I was very, very determined. And I was very obsessed with the idea to make a film. And I never doubted one second that won't succeed to make that film. So finally we get a little bit of money and we made the film. But we made the film just like a feast. I wasn't under pressure. It was a big feast to celebrate. We were all together, finally made a film feast to celebrate, you know? We were all together, finally made a film and we had great time playing with different, very twisted element, but we have that opportunity to do it and I didn't expect, honestly, nothing. I didn't expect to have that reception. And the reception today looks very good, but the reception wasn't very good, so good at the time, believe me. You know, especially in France, when the movie gets a release, it was very bloody. But it's okay, it still is. In ExoHop, it went a little bit better, because also I'm getting older. And you know, when you made films, at one point they get used to. Say okay, it's okay, it's not so bad. Do you think the French would have been less aggressive if the film had been French? Is there, because you know, there was, in the 2000s, there was some, you know some extreme French films came out, and Calvaire is sort of on the side of that. And if you'd made that film in Normandy, they would have said, ah, yes, wonderful. I'm not sure. I don't know. I really don't know. I remember the time it was, there is practically no trend of horror in Europe. A year before, Alexandre Rajat had made Haute Tension, and he was the only one. And then I came with Calvert on another level. It was more twisted. And then there is a trend, especially in France, and an appetite. I remember Toronto, for example, was The Midnight Madness, and Colin Geddes at The Midnight Madness was a huge fan of that. They helped us a lot. Colin Geddes made a lot for us. I'm sure about that. Wait, did you kind of come under pressure to go along with that French style extreme horror? Because obviously the next film you do is very different in many ways. But was it like, ah, now he's one of these guys like Aja, he can make an extreme body horror in France, Belgium, you know. Or were you like, did you say, no, my next film will be something completely different? It's always the movie against the other. completely different? It's always the movie against the other. For me, it's always a movie, you made something and then you have to go to the completely opposite way. You know, it's always a reaction. Vignane is a reaction of Calvert. Also because Vignane, I had, I was much younger and my ambition was so, so big and I wanted to make a movie and I wanted to face an adventure. It's always that, you know, for me it's the idea of adventure. It's always an idea of making something, an idea of making something you have to earn it. You have to suffer. It's probably my Jesuit education. You have to suffer to have heaven. I think I like suffer. Not really, I mean it. When you watch Vinyan, you think this must have been horrible to make because you're in the jungle somewhere. You're probably getting bitten by insects. It's hot, you're wet, everybody's covered in mud. I mean, there is a making of on the DVD and I really want to see that because this is like, I'm very glad that I'm not in the film Vinyan, I must admit. I'm glad I'm not the characters, but I'm also glad that sois pas sur ce set. Mais comme tu dis, c'était une souffrance joyeuse. C'était, c'était, vraiment c'était. C'est toujours cette idée, to face the elements, to be en hypervie, in hyper life, you know. A bit of Herzog, this idea of you make a film like when Herzog goes to, you know, whatever. Herzog is my hero. It is. So when you were making Vinyan, did you sort of think, ah, this is with Herzog, I better not go overboard here? No, no, because Herzog is a genius. And I'm not, but he's obsessive, you know, and he still is. But I like that idea, you know. And it's a very romantic, Novalis, German, romantic idea, I think. But I like that idea. I'm very, I feel very close to that. I feel very close to that idea that you have to reach something, you have to elevate yourself, you have to elevate your craft and your soul in the same time. So I always try with, when I make a movie, to of course to be very connected to my life, but I try to transcend that. I try to be a better filmmaker and a better person in the same time. So that's why when it goes bad, it's very, very painful. And Hallelujah, which we have mentioned before is based on the real life story of martha beck and raymond fernandez which is inspired a bit like ed gein has inspired many different films and i mentioned this yesterday that the most famous version is is the honeymoon killers uh leonard castle 1969 a great film and none of the other versions have this witchcraft element which was a real thing in the story Raymond Fernandez was doing this kind of witchcraft of. And yours is the only film that has that. Why do you think the other filmmakers took that out? I really don't know. I really don't know. I think it's such a great element. Because Raymond Fernandez was the man of the real story. Fernandez, who was the man of the real story, he had, he crossed, so he ran away from Spain to the States, he ran away from the Civil War, and on the boat he was hit by a mast, you know? A mast? Yeah. He was hit by that on his skull. And he had a change of behavior at the time. And he was obsessed with the fact that he was bald. So he was always wearing some wig because he had a big, big scar. And he was obsessed with his virility also. scar and he was obsessed with his virility also. He made a witchcraft to be very virile and have a very strong erection, I mean. Before Viagra there was this witchcraft. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's a great comment for a character. And in the real story of Beck and Fernandez, because in your film, it's very much Gloria, the woman who is the one who goes really extreme first. She's the one that basically does the murders. He's horrified at the beginning and later he sort of goes... Is that accurate to the way that it was in the real story? Or did you put that in? Yeah. Well, I don't know. I wasn't there, hopefully. But it's always that idea that love and the couple could be the first cell of fascism. You understand what I mean? It could be... The couple is always... You can tell... there is only one there is always one try to impose his vision to the other and I do like that the idea with that couple that the weakest woman that we present at the beginning is probably the wildest. And the strong man who seems super confident is the weakest. So I organized all the film with those cross journey. And I had the chance to have Lola Duenas who was really a fire and Laurent Lucas who was very cold and methodic. And for the little story at one point they didn't talk to each other because Lola was so wild so wild Because they have different approaches? Yeah, completely because it was impossible to hold the horses of Lola because Lola was always of Lola because Lola was always in the emotion immediately and not technical at all completely full of emotion and very wild and very full of passion and Laurent is much more he needs time to approach the element and the space It's strange because as you have said several times you are motivated by passion and fire. But your actor, I said your actor fetish, the actor that I associate with you is Laurent Lucas, who's really not like that. I mean, we very rarely see him as explosive on the screen. Is it that he's so different from you that you find it fascinating? Yeah, he's very different. It's been a while now. You know, it's been a while now. We, uh, you know, it's been a while. I, last time I saw him, it was three or four years ago. Uh, he lives in Quebec. He lives in Montreal. Um, he works there. I will, he will be probably, uh, be in my next film. Um, and, um, you know, now I have a very strong connection to Benoit Polvoort for example he's been in the last two films yeah and I it puts me Benoit puts me in a very uncomfortable position that I really like, I really love and he's an established star in Belgium and internationally. Yeah, he's a huge star in France. But Benoit is a major star of comedy most of the time, you know. But he's been in Men by Dogs a long time ago. And I always wanted to work with him because I feel he has that great energy he's unpredictable you never know exactly how and when he's gonna arrive and present himself Do you do lots of takes? No No, it depends there is no rule it takes as long as we need. When I was rewatching the films, one thing that seemed to recur, it doesn't happen in Calvaire, but it's in Vignane, Alleluia, Adoration, and Inexorable, is that in each, a woman becomes more and more mentally disturbed. Like Emmanuelle Bayard, in Vignane, she starts off, she's sad and things like that. By the end of the film, she's gone into a psychosis. In Inexorable, the Melanie Duterte, again, she seems okay, and then by the end, she's gone like this. And Fantine Hardouin, Melanie Dutte, she's, again, she seems okay, and then by the end, she's gone like this. And Fantine Hardouin, is this something you're conscious of, that you're drawn to stories in which women go into madness? Maybe, doctor, I don't know. We are in Austria, after all. Well, I think I always had a pleasure to watch the spectacle de l'hysterie, the feminine hysteria. I know it's not a very trendy thing to say these days, but I have to say it's true. That's why I feel so connected with Zulawski's film, for example, or other director maybe it's also because maybe it's because I I grew up with far away from woman in in Jesuit school and women were a little bit idealized and it was just like something forbidden for us, you know, and we, it's twisted, you know, in a way twisted, it gives you a sense of perversity in a way. And so now I'm not afraid about women at all. Of course, I love women. I love the company of women, and I try to have that company in my life most of the time. But it takes a long time for me to exercise that fear. Sometimes people say that, you know, about the madness and the quest of absolute that a woman can have. But in the other part, the male characters are terrible. They are terrible. They are a liar. They are weak. But they get punished for it. Always, yeah. Poor Rufus Sewell, the poor guy. He's gone through everything. Then he gets stabbed and his guts are ripped out and but that's the funny thing and the very end of the film this is a terrible spoiler for those who haven't seen it is that she's you know her husband's just been disemboweled and she's looked on well there we are and uh she's surrounded by all these children she smiles she's happy and the moment that you choose to cut is when she's the happiest in the whole film. Yeah, it's always the idea of the absolute. It's always that idea of the mystical absolute. What is mystique, you know? That's why I'm so much interested by the mystique, you know, in the religion, in the Catholic religion. I mean, Saint-Jean de la Croix or Thérèse d'Avila, that idea, what, the ecstatic, the absolute moment of ecstasy, you know? What is it exactly? Is it madness? Is it evil? Is it good? What is it exactly? And I try to bring also, but that's also, I recoup to that romantic aspect, you know, to bring that character to another level. It's always for me the fight between the profane and the sacred. you know and the way we switch from another to the idea of sacred is very important for me once again we live in a world less and less sacred but I think it will go back because we need that in our life and the profane it's just the idea that we are that in our life. And the profane, it's just the idea that we are submit to our instinct and how we hide that and what is the intersection of that. And I think it's fascinating to me, and especially for making films, you can do a lot of great story about that because yeah, it's very rich. You can do a lot of great story about that because, yeah, it's very rich. And you put it, you know, the religious element is clearly very prominent in the films. And as you say, you were educated by Jesuits, come from Catholic background. The trilogy that you made, the Ardenne trilogy is Calvair, which is the suffering of Jesus in Calvary. Alleluia, which is obviously hooray. And Adoration, Adoration, which again can be romantic, but it's also specifically the three kings adoring Jesus Christ. But then inexorable, inexorable, I didn't get so much religious stuff in that one. Is this because now you finished the trilogy and I know your next film, which we'll talk about briefly, Balderor, seems not to have much religious stuff. But, I mean, even Vinyan, which is not part of the Ardenne trilogy, the Vinyan is a spirit, there is a religious element, there is faith going on. Do you feel, I mean, it never comes out of your system, as we know. I mean, Graham Greene or Bunuel, you know, once you're a Catholic artist, you're a Catholic artist until you die. But are you now, that's the idea, and are you sort of consciously with the next Arable and the next film, Mal d'Or, trying to sort of move on to something else? Well, I hope so. You know, I hope so. In Exorab, once again, for me, it was an exercile of style. It's a movie that is very important for me was an exercile of style. It's a movie that is very important for me. I made it in a reaction of adoration. I tried to be much more precise on the genre, you know, the home invasion with some Jalo accent, with some ghost Japanese story accent, but very, very into the genre because sometimes people said about my films, it's very crossover with different genres. So I try to be very, very more specific on the genre and play with element of profane, with that idea of lies. And I wanted to invite the audience a little bit more precisely to the family, just like just like once again, I love Chabrol, but I don't want to to pretend that, you know, you know what I mean? I tried to present a world a little bit more Chabrolien at the beginning and then slowly find my perspective, my way of doing. And in a very, very cautious and precise way to build tension. I was very, very focused on that idea to build really basic tension to grab the audience. Of course, it's a sexual thriller, but sexuality here is not something to, just like we have seen in the 90s, in that wave of American erotic thriller, is not graphic or is not in addition. Sexuality here means something very it's very specific of the revelation of of characters i would to my perspective i mean but so it was very intimate and i tried to build the tension and to create a third act was really really just like very baroque and heavy. And with that idea of pleasure to transmit a kind of pleasure to the audience. So it was for me, once again, it's very personal, very intimate, but it was the idea to open a little bit more my skill, my craft, you know, to be able to touch a little bit more people with a basic story and try to concern a little bit more people. Are you comfortable with the label, a director that works within genre? Because it's often said, you know, Fabrice Duel's master of genre, genre, genre, genre. To you, does that matter? I don't care. It's okay? Really, I don't care. It's up to people. You know, it's a, I don't, you know, now, of course, we're talking, you ask me some question, I've been invited here, I've been touring and talking about my latest film. But I'm not, you know, honestly, it's always my focusing. My focusing is always the next film. And it's always problematic to talk, and especially to be cerebral about my own work. Because, of course, I can relate some obsession. I can relate that,, I can relate that and I can share it, but it's always better to the audience to have his own idea and l'étiquette, the label, it's okay. It doesn't mean anything to me. And the next film, which we've kind of hinted at, but I heard it was called Mal d'Or. Mal d'or is this famous book written in the 1870s Le Traumont very bizarre sexual huge influence on the surrealists and the beats and things like that but it's not an adaptation of Mal Doror which would be fun coming from you this maybe you can just pitch or tell explain what Mal Doror is well Mal Doror is a is a book well it's not a book Maybe you can just pitch or explain what Mal de Rohe is. Mal de Rohe is a book, well it's not a book, it's a story that I wanted to make since 15 years. It's based on the Dutroux case, you know, who hit Belgium during the 90s and I was I was I had 20 20 years at the time and I was Very very touched just like the majority of Belgian. This was for people who didn't know about this was a child abuse Ring basically involving very some very powerful high people in Belgian society. We don't know exactly, you know, there is different Theory you we don't know exactly. You know, there is different theory. We don't know exactly. And then there was this fellow in the middle of it, Marc Dutroux. What was he? Yes, just like the Kampusch story in Austria, in a way, but much more complex because in the Kampusch story, you have only one predator. In the Dutroux case there is probably probably a réseau a network there is a network involved very different people and we don't know until where so it's a story about dysfunctionment at the time in Belgium there is three-fourths of police and all those force making war to each other so there is some info that they didn't share information and it brings it brings to to a tragedy, you know, young girls die under terrible circumstances and it's Belgium during the 90s and it was a big big trauma in all almost made Belgium explode I have to say and it's very very very touchy and sensitive subject to my country so now of course it's not based on fact my film it's cinema once again and it's freely adapt but all the elements all the big key of articulation they are quite relevant and true because I I spend time to read and read and read a lot of thing about that and it's very complex and the point of view is very strong it's a story about a young cop just it's a film don't get you know could be once again it's just a reference it could be a zodiac like you know to have a young cop who who tried to to make it good but he faced so many closed doors that it's impossible to reach the reality. And we question evil here. But once again, now it's probably too early to talk about it, we need to make it. But you're filming it very soon, I believe. It's in good way. But it's expensive, it's a period of time because it's the 90s, it's a huge budget, it's a lot of location, a lot of actors. We're gonna shoot in Germany, in a warehouse in Cologne. It's not the first time that the Dutroux case has been tackled in cinema, but is it going to be the most sort of direct or the most, you know, this is the one that will put it on the screen? We'll see. No, but it's very challenging. It's very, very dangerous. It's highly inflammable. It could be explosive. I cannot fail. But that's very exciting. We do have time for some questions, so if you can put on your thinking caps and come up with a question or two to end us with. I did want to ask about your now working with younger directors and teaching. Lucas Dont, who has the film close in Cannes competition and had a great success with Girl. I was amused to read that he restaged a scene from Vignane as part of his film school. So a direct influence on the next generations of people coming from Belgium. Maybe speak a little bit about why you teach and how you teach and why you think it's important. I think it's very important for young people to have some passionate people in front of them. Teaching is something... That's another part of my life. I really want to do that and deeply and deeply, probably in the next few years and probably when I get a little bit older. I think it's very essential. I think if you can provoke vocation, only one, you can be happy in your life. And how do you do it? What is your teaching method? Do you show them classic scenes from Argento or do you act out or what do you do? It depends. It depends. You know, I'm mostly talking about light to film director. Well, student, the question, the idea of light, the technical aspect of articulate a film and practically how to do it to let them a lot of freedom. And I mostly work with young actors at the Conservatoire in Paris. But it's the same thing. You know, young people, just like working with kids, if you talk to a kid just like he's a kid, he's going to didn't like you. kid is going to didn't like you if you're talking to a kid and you give him the right look and you puts you you talk to him just like a normal person just like an adult with some responsibility and great ability it will it will it will it will connect and I work a lot with kids, and it's always, of course, it's a long way to find the good kids, you know, the kid who has that talent to be able to play and to be here and now alive. But with students, it's the same thing. It's always try to reach them because if they are in the kind of school it's because they they have some aspiration they want to go over themselves so you need to find the the thing and then to bring them to passion and when you have a passion kids is safe i'm sure about that when you have someone who had a passion, it's safe. It will do something. And do you still see the passion for cinema, which was the norm in maybe our generation, and you look at younger people now in their teens and 20s and they have video games and they have endless alternate things that are claiming their attention and social media and da da da da da da but you still see a kind of that cinephile passion continuing? Yeah it's minus of course but you know I don't pretend to save the world I communicate my passion of filmmaking and cinema to my son. And that's something, that's one of my big succeed in life. To be able to communicate something. And my son is now, he's 22 and he loves cinema. And he goes by himself to the cinematech and he he's digging and he has that passion and that's something nobody can get rid of him so he will be stronger with that and I think it's so once again it's pédagogie I think passion is something you can communicate with really I really believe that. And I think it's important. Oh, and I forgot to mention, Vinyan is actually showing tonight. So the film that I sort of spoiled is showing this evening at one of the cinemas here. So we do have time for one or two questions or comments. If anybody has anything to ask Fabrice, please don't be shy don't hide your passion yes, great, thank you Any tips for filmmakers? Young filmmakers Work with your friend Yeah, work with your friend and that's not mine, it's Christopher Nolan who said that that's something I read. Someone was just like you, asking him, and he said, work with your friend. Try to make some film with your friend. Write story with your friend. Shoot with your friend. Try to move forward with your friends. Don't try, don't try. I don't think it's greener outside. You know, it's the same. You still watch the, you still go to the cinema and watch Hollywood films and artistic films? No, I don't watch Marvel and stuff like that. It's not that I, I'm bored with that. Because once again, cinema for me, it's a very, very erotic element. I like the sexual tension, not only because I'm a little bit obsessed, but it's because, you know, cinema, in great cinema, it's just like an expression of art form. It's always a question of tension between people. It doesn't mean I'm a perv. It just, it's life. And that expression is very important. And I think the Marvel and all those superhero stuff doesn't concern me because there is no tension at all. It's just boring to me. It's just like... So I have no connection to that. I prefer to be a boomer in a way. Because once again, I think cinema is a place to talk about the world, talk about many, many things, and talk about the tension between people and the way we look at each other, the way we try to connect to each other, we try to communicate to each other. Of course, with a narrative, with a dramaturgy, it's always better. But that's my conception of cinema. It's a very... I like to be a witness of something in cinema. And the Hollywood stuff, you know, especially these days, well, to me, once again, it's only me. I think it's a little bit boring. What about a director like, for example, Denis Villeneuve? I love it. I prefer, honestly, his pre-Dune period. But now, you know, he does exactly what he wants to do. And he's a major film director. And I perfectly respect that. I was just when you said about Hitchcock and obviously people can re-watch Hitchcock now and learn from that I was trying to think of an active director who you know somebody you could say just watch those films and you would learn you know. Yeah Paul Thomas Anderson you know is still very very as an American but there is many many great American film directors still today. And maybe some European ones you find particularly stimulating? Well, there is some. In France, you have Claire Denis. You have Bruno Dumont. You have Gaspard Noé. You have... Keshish. You have K Kashish that I love so much I especially love Kashish yeah because it's it's funny how Kashish is out of all these directors he's the one that gets trouble you know Claire Denis never gets any trouble and you know Desplechats never gets trouble but everything Kashish does everything trouble is all the time yeah but you know it's the distinction everything trouble is all the time. Yeah, but, you know, it's the distinction between the man and the artist. We were talking about that at lunchtime. It's difficult, yeah, it's difficult. But Keshish is probably a very energy man. But as a filmmaker, and his obsession for young people and the way he articulated that. And he tried to reach a state of grace, you know. And it's always that. It's always trying to find a state of grace of something, an event, a love story, a look. And that's worth a life. Other question? Yes, please. Yeah, I like the question about the young directors. I would like to ask if you have some advisement for like after middle life crisis, first life crisis, directors. Not so young, but the ones that... You're talking about you? Yes. For filmmakers who are not starting out, but maybe... And a lot of friends. Go a little bit further and then they have a problem. How do you advise them? Well, you know, just like Snow White, you know just like Snow White you know she falls rise fall rise fall you remember Snow White eats the apple and then falls asleep no when she she you know I can't remember that scene in the film well never mind. So when you fall over, you've got to pick yourself up. Yeah. Fight. I think it's part of it. You have to... I know it's complicated to have an appetite for fight, but it's the way it is. If you have a problem like that, do you think it's a good idea for filmmakers to step away from filmmaking for a bit and try something else and then maybe come back? Or do you think filmmakers should just fight and be filmmakers? It depends on the filmmaker. You know, it depends. If you want to make film, it's not an easy path. Films is very, very complicated. You need to be very very obsessive and determined to make films it's complicated it's complicated because you need to to raise the money you need to convince people you need to pretend that you're sure of yourself you know you know something so that's something i i i said to said to my student, for example, when you don't know something, if you say on the set, I don't know, it's a disease, it's cancer. Everybody, what is he doing? No, you pretend. You pretend exactly to be in control of everything, and then you pick the table and table say why that table is white i asked for a red table find me a red table and then you have two hours to think about your stuff you know yeah it's true you always find some tricks you know to to to pretend you are in in control because during a shooting everybody's looking at you because you are the voice and it could be very, sometimes you can have a very heavy pressure on that. And so you have to pretend all the time you are, I'm the boss, I'm controlling, I know everything we want, we have to do, but you're not, of course you have doubts, you have to face every problem. I wonder how it works with the Dardennes when there's two of them, whether, of course, you have doubts, you have to face every problem. I wonder how it works with the Dardens when there's two of them. Whether one of them, you know, they share the decisions, they argue. They are very great guys, you know, they are very, very funny guys. I love them very sincerely. One is very close to the actor and one is much more on the technical aspect, just like the Coon brothers. Yeah. Because I think it's kind of strange how the world of films has developed that you have this one person in charge of it. I always like it when films are directed by two or three or four people. No, because filmmaking is a dictatorship. I really think that. I have a question. I made my first film. I was very obsessed for four or five years totally obsessed so that was good then but now the film is done and because of this obsession you know i didn't start up a next project well i think i should have done it but then that's more the pragmatic approach of building up continuity to make it a job how do you deal with this i've learned something and it's it's i think it's very helpful it's um when a movie gets a release have a new project because it's always bad bad reviews are always present and you always need to have something in the pipelines to save your mind and your soul because a project when you get a release it's always night time it's bad, it's bad reviews it's bad box office so you need to have something else so but when do you start this up do you start redeveloping the next thing while you're shooting or in post-production or you have a system yeah i have a system right now yeah yeah well i was it was edgy at the beginning but now i have a system because i i have some screenwriters so i always start on production when something is really in the pipeline you know and then i can focus on on on on the project the shooting and and uh go on post-production and my my screenwriter can write and then, you know, during the shooting, of course, I'm off. But during the post-production, there is some connection. And at the end of the process, when the movie gets a release, but now it's been complicated because we had to face a pandemic and a lot of films have been postponed. But I have a new project and I think it's a very good tip because you're not too dependent of the film that's been released because if not you have only that and then that's it and once again most of the time the reviews are bad and the box office is terrible so so no really honestly you you have to some to have something forwards is is there a dream project that you've had for some time that you think at some point i can get to make this dream project this one maldor it's a it's a dream I have I have I have different different projects especially now I have an idea of a new trilogy sorry to sound a little bit pompous about that but it's it's based on different aspects of Belgium so Dutroux's case the Congo and the Rexism the Rex the Congo and the collaboration with the Nazis, the Belgian collaboration with the Nazis during the Second War. So I have those three projects. So you see it's a little bit more anchor in a very strong context. And so I'm developing that, yeah. We look forward. Yes, next question. I have another question connected to what I asked, I think, yesterday, that you work in general with analog material, and I would be interested in your working process. So do you shoot on 35mm or 60mm and how is your working process? Do you shoot and then develop and watch it and shoot on the next day or what is the process, how you work? And do you edit analog or do you edit digital? No, it's Super 16, we shoot on Super 16 but then after it's a digital process, you know, of course it's, yeah, I'm a romantic but that could be very, I would love to do that but, you know, that's complicated, especially these days but the process on Super 16, especially on all the five films that are here, they have been all shot on Super 16 especially on all the five films that are here they have been all shot in Super 16 it's a process talking about location first location scouting location find a place talking about the texture of the wall the colors colors that we can use, the shiny aspect of it, and then bring the DOP, talk about the light, only one source of light. I insist on that because I always shot, and I can be very, very, very dogmatic about that. There is practically no light on my set. I always want to light a scene with one source. And most of the time, the exteriors are light from the inside and the inside from the outside. And so it's always, after that, it's always a question that we articulate the light, how, what we can compose based on the location with the light. For example, I don't know if you've seen Inexorable. In Exorable, you have that scene when they talk together during the red light and the sun is going down, down, down, and you have no perception that suddenly we go to the night and then the characters stand up and switch on the light. So it just incorporate the light into the scene to make something with the light. Also what you saw, what you didn't saw, it's because I love painting, and it's always a great source of inspiration, the question of light, because I think the light could be very important to be used just like dramaturgy. And I'm very, very surprised most of the time, very important to be used just like dramaturgy, you know? And I'm very, very surprised most of the time, especially when I teach at La Femmise, for example, or different other schools, that students, they didn't have any notion of light. Also because we are in a digital world world and they don't care they should they should they should they don't expose anymore and then they great they they did some light integrating it you know but it makes no sense for me honestly for me light is always part of the process what you expose what you didn't expose so uh I don't know if I respond to your question, but it's a combination of analog, location, light, and then after it's a process of digital. But when I arrive in grading, for example, I spend only three or four days. And all the films that I heard now they have two three four weeks of grading what the fuck why why I don't get that but one thing I wanted to know was also when you shoot do you develop in between to see what the result is or do you trust the DOP that the result will be what you expect? I have a small monitor but you know now I have an eye, I have experience so I know, I can tell and also we know each other quite good and I push the DOP to go, generally to go deeper in the dogma of light but you know the dailies have been you know delivered to a studio they delve they develop and they digital they digitalize and then i had the the dailies uh one or two days after um and i'm very sensitive to that approach because once again it's probably a little bit romantic but that's why I don't like very much digital because you have an idea exactly, you have immediately the idea of what you have shot and with Argentique when you're analog you can have element of surprise. You know exactly, you have have element of surprise you know exactly you have an idea of what you shot but it's always better in digital it's always ugliest I mean of course there is some people who use digital masterly David Fincher and some other great director but I still very very keen about Analogue Good I think we are having to vacate the premises because there is another question Did you ever have the feeling that there are no more stories that haven't been told before, that there is nothing you could add with your work? I'm sorry, I don't... The question was, do you ever feel that there are no more stories that need to be told, that you have nothing to add to the world's stories which we have? There are so many stories. Do you ever feel, ah, everything's been done now? need to be told that you have nothing to add to the to the world's stories which we have there are so many stories do you ever feel ah everything's been done now yeah everything everything has been told but we know that we know that since century it's always the way we go through things there is there is several subject you know big subject love death, and then how we go through that. What is your perspective on that based on your life? What is your perspective, how you want, what you have, what's your reaction, what's your thought about that, what's your instinct about that? And that's why I think it has to be always close to you. We have to create an intimacy about the expression in you. That's a very fragile limit. Maybe a last question from anybody? Yes, please please go ahead. What do you think is the most difficult thing about filmmaking? That's a very strong question. Well, you got me. I really don't know I don't well of course it's devourish yourself it's a passion so it's devourish yourself devourish? devour yourself? yeah devour yourself devours you in a way. You are quite lonely with your obsession making a film and try to convince people. But in the reverse, it's so much fun, so much passion, so much joy. And I think that joy sometimes... Because... That's me. I don't believe in happiness you know I I believe no really I don't believe in happiness and I and I I'm not sure we are here to be happy all the time you know all the society you know try to sell us we have to be happy we have to be happy yeah we have to be happy sometimes sometimes but sometimes in filmmaking, I have that feeling that I can be very, very happy. I can be very, very down too. But when I reach some time, when I get the excitement of a scene, when I talk to an actor and I have the feeling that I have accomplished a scene or editing or a good response from a film festival or whatever. It's such a joy, it's such a pleasure. Yeah, so it's always two different, it's pain and happy, you know? But the most difficult thing could be, yeah, you are very lonely in a point you are very lonely to with your own shit well hopefully you feel a little bit less lonely now that we've had you in Linz and we've shown and I know it's awkward for filmmakers and they say oh retrospective I'm only 49 years old you, but we hope to encourage you to continue because we want to keep showing the films. But as I say, I think it's been wonderful to be able to put the five films that we're showing in context and they really do play off each other. And the more that you look into it, the more they play off. And as I say, tonight at eight o'clock is showing Vinyan which is an extreme vision of hell and horror and love and beauty and rain and everything so it's Joseph Conrad meets I don't know John Carpenter and if you get the chance to see it Fabrice will be there and as you've seen his passion comes in the films and comes in the talk and this is always wonderful to have so thank you Fabrice thank you to the audience please join me in thanking Fabrice Duvelz you