Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren, also herzlich willkommen zu unserem Panel heute anlässlich der Ausstellung von Julia Beliaeva. Vielleicht nur ein paar Worte, das ist die einzelnen Kolleginnen, also vom Panel wird dann die Frau Rückert vorstellen. Ich möchte nur ein paar Worte sagen zur Ausstellung, Also wie der russische Krieg begonnen hat, also nach wenigen Tagen haben wir auch einen Anruf bekommen, also Masha Voskho, das erwähne ich jetzt, wir kennen uns seit sehr, sehr langer Zeit. Sie ist von der Voskho Foundation in Dänemark. Sie ist gebürtige Ukrainerin aus Dnipropetrovsk. Und sie hat mich angerufen und gesagt, Alfred, wir haben hier das ganze Haus voll mit 15 Künstlerinnen aus der Ukraine, die geflohen sind. Und wir geben denen sozusagen jetzt Quartier. Und wir haben ja gehört, du hast auch vor, ukrainischen Künstlerinnen zu helfen. Also ich war gerade am Weg in die Ukraine und habe die Mascha Kulikowska geholt, deren Ausstellungen wir vor einigen Monaten im FC gezeigt haben. Und dann sagt sie, naja, hast du noch Platz für jemanden? Dann haben wir gesagt, na sicher haben wir noch Platz, also das wird kein großes Problem sein. Und dann sage ich, wen hast du denn? Dann sagt sie, die Julia Beliaeva. Und die Julia kenne ich seit, Und dann sage ich, wen hast du denn? Dann sagt sie, die Julia Pellier. Und die Julia kenne ich seit, also wir sind Instagram-Freunde seit 2018. Und wie ich also im Leipzig im Museum war, habe ich gesagt, also wollte ich immer mit ihr zusammenarbeiten. Und wie ich dann hergekommen bin, ich bin ja sozusagen die ersten Tage von Covid hierher nach Linz gezogen. Und dann habe ich auch eine Kuratorin gebeten, sie einmal zu kontaktieren, da war sie glaube ich gerade in Belgien jetzt irgendwie unterwegs und Covid hat das aber dann nicht, durch Covid war es einfach nicht möglich. Und dann ruft mich eben die Masche an und sagt, du pass auf, das ist die Julia, da sage ich bitte Perfektsoppa und ich glaube drei Tage später war sie schon da mit ihrem Sohn. Und dann haben wir ja gemeinsam mit der Gmuntner Keramik ein großartiges Projekt entwickelt, also über die Academy of Ceramics Gmunten und da haben dann beide Künstlerinnen, sowohl die Mascha Kulikowska als auch die Julia Believer haben dort gearbeitet. Die Mascha hat ungefähr ein knappes halbes Jahr und die Julia war jetzt würde fast meinen fast ein ganzes Jahr da und die Produkte, die sie generiert hat in dieser Zeit sind in der Ausstellung ein Geschoss unter uns zu sehen. Und es wird auch so in dieser Art und Weise weitergehen, der Krieg ist ja nicht absehbar, wann er zu Ende sein wird. Wir sind jetzt gerade dabei uns zu überlegen, welche Künstler innen wie es wieder zu uns holen können die wir auch aus dem zusammenhang einmal mehr mit mit der academy of ceramics arbeiten lassen können weil dort die arbeitsumstände wirklich fantastisch sind es ist ja nicht nur ein wunderbarer ort sondern auch die manufaktur ist großartig, weil sie sehr, sehr groß ist und wir halt auch mit den Kolleginnen dort, also sie sind alles wie so eine kleine Familie geworden, einfach perfekte Arbeitsumstände vorfinden. Und also ohne die Unterstützung der Gmuntner Keramik, die auch hier sind, also Alexander Köck, der Prokurist, dann also der Keramikmeister, der Hütti, Herr Hüttmeier, dem wir sehr, sehr viel zu verdanken haben und auch die Steffi, die daneben steht, also die haben sehr wesentlich dazu beigetragen, dass diese Ausstellung möglich geworden ist und auch sehr wesentlich dazu beigetragen, dass auch die Julia Belliherber hervorragende Arbeitsbedingungen finden konnte, also in einer sehr, sehr schwierigen Zeit. Ja, und jetzt bedanke mich bei Ihnen noch einmal für das Kommen und wünsche Ihnen einen interessanten Abend. Die Ausstellung von Julia ist ja gestern eröffnet worden, aber eigentlich beginnt die Eröffnung eigentlich erst heute, weil wir gesagt haben, man kann so eine Ausstellung wie von Julia nicht mit einer Party eröffnen. Party gab es gestern trotzdem und wir haben das auch mit ihr besprochen und sie findet das gut, weil sie sagt, die Welt geht weiter. Es ist auch wichtig, dass man auch diese Facetten zeigt, aber für uns, intern würde ich meinen, beginnt die Ausstellung eigentlich erst jetzt in diesem Moment und jetzt gebe ich das Wort weiter an die Frau Rückert. Die Konversation wird glaube ich vorwiegend in Engl stattfinden, möglicherweise auch ein bisschen ukrainisch, aber wir werden da sein, um das entsprechend auch zu übersetzen, wenn es notwendig ist. Dankeschön. A very warm welcome also from my side. We are very happy to present today our discussion, our talk, and to really welcome our guests. We are very honored that you join us for this talk and that you especially came here also to see Julia Belaeva's exhibition, since all of you are quite connected also to Julia and to her work. So you know her work for quite a while, all of you. And I think the exhibition we did together with the Gmündner Keramik or the new production of this kind of series of work, Fragile City, is actually your biggest work so far. I think it's a very intense work and based on this new production we did together we would like to reach out and touch also the Ukraine situation and the Ukraine art community and context so this would be kind of the und der ukrainischen Kunstgemeinschaft und Kontext. Das wäre der Ziel dieses Talks. Die Ukraine und auch der Hintergrund. Julia Belayewas Arbeit auch im Kontext. Das wäre für heute unser Arbeitsauftrag gewesen. Wir hatten bereits sehr intensiv Diskussionen, um den Talk mit euch zu vorbereiten. unser Arbeitsauftrag gewesen. We had already quite intense discussions to prepare the talk with each of you and I would like to introduce you first. Of course Julia Belaeva, the artist. A very well welcome and really congratulations to this great piece and this fantastic exhibition. We will start our panel discussion with Masha Forsko. Masha Forsko, as we heard has ukraine roots is based in in copenhagen and she's curator and the co-founder of art visit contemporary art center in the ukraine cora contemporary art film the founder of sub-sai gallery in copenhagen Chief Operating Officer of the Fourscrew Foundation. Welcome. Olena Balun is a curator also with Ukraine roots, living in Germany already for 20 years. She also did an exhibition of Julia Belaeva quite recently at the gallery Martin Quade, Quadrat, in Berlin. She is also coordinator of the Ukraine Art Aid Center Network, Kulturschutz Ukraine. Welcome. Martin Quade is gallerist based in Berlin and your gallery is called Quadrat and you did this amazing show together with Julia and Olena. And we look also forward to learn more about the context in Berlin. Since we know also from our experience, living together kind of with Julia Belaeva and Masha Kulikovska for really a long time. We shared our office together with both of them and their kids. And sometimes family, when it was possible, for your husbands or also your mother and father of Maria Kulikowska. And we shared this experience with the amazing team of Gmundner Keramik since we established also last year. So it was all kind of a coincidence or good luck for all of us that we were establishing the cooperation with Gmundner Keramik to really invite artists in residence and to create a dialogue between the team of the Gmunder Keramics the context of Gmunden which is a beautiful city in the Salzkammergut an area really lovely and the Gmunder Keramics has a very long historic tradition and Alfred Weidinger Veronika Schreck as curator and the head of the collections for ceramics and me and the artists and the team we were establishing this academy and I think we did quite a lot of interesting stuff together. In exchange, we had talks. And we intensively worked together on the new works of Maria Kolikowska, of Julia, of Ben Orkin, an artist from South Africa, Rosi Steinbach, an artist from Germany, artist from South Africa, Rosi Steinbach, an artist from Germany and another one. And we would also like to really welcome Linda Luse. Linda Luse is here with us. She's an artist. I have to add another name. Yes, please. It's Dominika Bednarski from Berlin. Dominika Bednarski. And Linda is also good fortune. She kind of stayed in Upper Austria and has also very interesting project together. Yeah, I would like to ask Julia to start her presentation because Julia prepared what she did on Fragile City, kind of the references, the background and also really the production process. it's a final of of Fragile City. There is two pieces, two fireplaces, and one year of team working with great masters of modern ceramic. And this project was started in April, a year ago. This project was started in April a year ago. At first you can see some historical images of fireplaces. Fireplaces were once popular in Europe and that's where they came from to our lands, I mean Ukraine. I have dreamed of working with ceramic fireplaces for a long time and I just waiting for the right moment for this idea. When I arrived to Europe of course it was a shock after war started and I take my time maybe two months before I started work. And when I asked people around I realized that the locals who live in private houses are more than interested in considering to reduce gas consumption. So my work does not blame anyone, but rather provides an alternative and the message back to the roots. The European context is where this idea works the best. And at the same time, in this project, it combines well-being and comfort in the ceramic tile fireplaces with ruin and sorrow that permanent in my country during the war period. In this photo you can see a school and I just want to talk about history of space. Of the UCA as a former school of the St. Ursulines Convent, built in the 1930s. So this was also an important reference for you. Yeah, it's really important. And also when I searched the documentaries photos about the Second World War I found the ruined buildings and and fireplaces standing untouched. And also I noticed it's a new construction for next generation of buildings. It's very close to high-rise buildings and other modern buildings. And this image is Saltivka, Ukrainian city Kharkiv. I have a family in Kharkiv and my grandmother lived near this part of Kharkiv and now it's the most destroyed part of Kharkiv. Here are documentary photos from Boredyanka. I was in Ukraine two months ago and I made these photos with camera Kyiv 16. It's an analog camera and was made in Arsenal factory in Kyiv. And final idea. The first step was working with 3d I used to blender and the brush and you can see a digital process from white fireplace I have 20 parts, different parts. And when I created it in 3D, we printed them. And next step, Master Roland Hutmeier started to work with them. You can see Roland. Say hello. He's a great master. Here are 3D prints. We received these prints in July. They also look great the important detail of white fireplaces fireplaces freeze with a sense of first period of full-scale invasion and I used the screens from videos here we see as of defender also president our president Zelensky and the famous rooster, who founded in Barydank, and the symbol of Ukraine now. migration and here a process with modern ceramic manufacturing a lot of works. Big mold. Roland Steffi. Here I understand it must be a burnt house and we're searching for these effects to show these burnt parts. And it's a very funny moment how I learned to Austrian people to write Putin it's mean Putin dig it's a famous song and it's a reference I took this photo in Irpin and someone, an artist, wrote the sentence of building and I just take and find out how it looks. We would like to show you also the images or the installation shots by Michael Marecz, who is also here, because he was kind of the photographer who also developed together or who was really attending the process and taking photos from different stages of work and Also for you as we don't know if you have seen the exhibition already But there's still the chance to see it. Yeah The black sculpture, Fragile City No. 2 consists of one tile, right? Yeah, one tile and my plan was to make this piece more easier for production but... But no. It's much harder. It consists of one tile, that's true. And the idea was to really to transfer this black destroyed kind of facade really into the sculpture. Wir haben diese Häuschen in der Ukraine und diese Häuschen werden die meisten. Plattenbauten. Martin Quade hat heute gemeint, sie sind in Osteuropa einfach nur kleiner. It's the name of exhibition. Go. It's Fragility. For me, Fragile City exhibition about the fragility of existence, the fragility of human life and its way of life in the face of global challenges and changes. About the war by Russians against Ukraine, of course. About the fact that no one and nothing is safe from being destroyed in this world, even in Europe and other parts of this world. Everything we have is very fragile. I really understood this with the beginning of full-scale invasion. When at one moment my life and the life of many Ukrainians turned upside down, I would like to remind the European audience that steel is rapidly collapsing and this is happening not so far from the cozy other world. Fireplaces reflect the energy crisis, which has again... Energy crisis crisis you understand and i want to repeat this works do not blame of european weaver rather they provide an alternative and and we can return to the roots. And another important moment of the exhibition is fragility of memory. Memory has a fragile structure, so it must be periodically awakened recalled if this does not happen we go in the cycles this sculpture shows this it's about a lot more times my family go through these times, my grandmother and her family. And also very important, we have Alexander Winnenberg photos included to this exhibition. included to this exhibition. Yeah, this is a piece which existed already made in 2016 for an exhibition at the Pinchuk Art Center in Kiev. Sorry, sorry. 21. 21, yeah. Just before war started. Sorry, yeah. And the interesting thing is, so this is the sculpture and we are very happy that the sculpture is now part of the collection of the Federal State of Upper Austria. That this really important piece of art of Julia Belyeva's oeuvre and also as a piece of art which refers to one of the biggest catastrophes in your country and also in Europe. So it was the big hunger in the 1930s in Ukraine, which the Russians still don't admit. So it's a really important piece. It's made out of porcelain, so it's not a ceramic material, but this is porcelain and it was produced in the porcelain factory. In Kyiv I collaborate for three years with the masters of Kyiv porcelain factory and it's very important to me to continue this tradition. These images Julia found just on the internet are part of a photo series which an Austrian engineer took in the 1930s and smuggled them out and put them in a photo book he prepared for bishop cardinal in it's a in Austria and that's why it is as one of the most important documents to really show that this existed part of the ducess on a heave in Vienna so on this is the situation So this is the situation. It's like life after death exists. Social meditation, I made this work in 2015. I think we are now, the work started much earlier than one year ago. It started with annex of Crimea and padding in Donetsk. So it was first edition in white color and we produced a new edition of this installation with Gmundner Ceramic and they look like burnt. So they have a metallic glaze which the Gmundner Ceramic really developed. So very interesting, very interesting color. Since it's really metallic in a kind of bronzish color, a bit shimmering. And what you can see here is the installation as it is set up in the chapel, which was the former chapel of the St. Ursuline's kind of garden. And it's also a very beautiful reference because this in this church you can see really very interesting wallpaper a wall paintings dedicated to the Holy Mary and children's figures always appear in your work like here very formalistic kind of quoting sovietish realism yeah yeah it's a main reference of this installation it's a boy with butterfly it's a small sculpture made in soviet times it's like about peace and happy childhood. And it was, of course, not true. And what we see here is the kind of boys, they are holding guns. And the way they are sitting, they create kind of a dialogue around this neon gas filled ring. And what you propose is really to start a dialogue between human beings, right? On this level? Without weapons. It's not possible. Yeah, and this would be also our start to kind of open up our panel for you, to really start our dialogue. And I would like to invite Masha Forsko to start. Okay. Okay. Okay. Only we have to start the presentation. The PDF. Because this has a very beautiful font. Hello. Hi hi everyone. It's very nice to see you all here in the room with us tonight. It's nice to feel such warm support here in Linz, especially for the Ukrainians in us. So thank you. And as Alfred and Geneveva said, my name is Masha Fausco. I'm a Ukrainian who lives in Copenhagen and I wanted to, when I was invited to take part in this talk, it was a very, I felt like a heartwarming occasion. It's a very special event. To me, it feels like a one-year graduation of Julia with her practice in Linz. So I was very touched and glad to make sure I can come. And then when I thought about what is so interesting that I can tell to all of you, of course, on one hand I think I can continue telling stories which are very interesting, but on the other hand I had to keep it essentialized to Julia's story. And I thought that I'll use a little bit of the artist quotes and I thought that this quote by Edward Munch was a very good reference to the artworks that we see produced by Julia. So I wanted to start with that. And then of course in order to tell a little bit about Julia's art, I think I will start by telling a little bit about myself. Maybe you just... Maybe you just... Yeah. Yeah, so I just wanted to start by telling a little bit about myself and that I have to go back a little bit to create a picture, a background of Ukraine for you to understand where Yulia comes from. And about Ukraine, I cannot speak from an art historian perspective because I'm not an art historian. I'm an anthropologist by education, but I work with art because that was what I chose after my chosen degree. And I feel that having left Ukraine when I was 16 and then lived in the West for a long time and then having come back to Ukraine in 2009, I had a very interesting anthropological experience with the art scene of Ukraine, which especially from the point of view of my hometown, which is called Alfred, not Dnipropetrovsk, but Dnipro. It was... So Dnipropetrovsk was the name... It was the longest name of a city I've ever had to write down with my own hand. But it was a name which was created by the Soviet powers, which combined the name of the river and then the name of the guy who was just a terrible sadist guy, part of the Soviet government. So we were happily rid of that name. And now it's called Dnipro, and that's how it stays. So from the point of view of that city I saw the scene of art in Ukraine by the time of 2009 and that city I think now that I visit Linz it bears a lot of similarity to Linz. It looks like about the same size even even though it has slightly more people. It's about 1 million, slightly over 1 million people. But it's a very industrial city with a very strong historic center. So the old buildings in the center and the kind of, yeah, there's a strong presence of history from the 19th century. But also a strange mix of heritage because it is a steel production region. So there is the steel production workers, engineers, also space production and strangely the biggest Hasidic Jew community in Ukraine. So within that mix there was no contemporary art at all. There was no understanding of what that is. And having come back to Ukraine at that time just for a summer holiday to spend time with my family, I ended up staying for five years. During that time, I co-founded an art center, which was called Art Suite Gallery, which I'm going to mention later. Julia actually also was exhibited in there. So it became a very important platform in the region where there was this vacuum, artistic vacuum. And I really felt it was very important to do that, but it was very difficult for me to justify why it is important, especially when I was talking to people with funding capacity there. people with funding capacity there. It was difficult for me to justify why it makes sense for them to give their money to culture. Thank God now there is actually a lot of economic research which shows that culture is a very profitable enterprise. So yeah, I wish I had that back then. But anyway, from that point of this cultural platform, I began to understand how important and what an influence culture can have on a very slow and soft influence. And I think just about that time, I also came across Alfred, who I reached out to because he is a world's expert on Gustav Klimt. And I guess my... Imagine my surprise when I come to meet him in Vienna and he turns out to know more about Ukraine than even I. It was very interesting. So that connection was about, yeah, about 10 years ago where we met each other. So back to Ukraine, I just want to briefly touch upon that for Julia, who is a contemporary artist, she has quite a heavy lifting to do in terms of just being a Ukrainian artist. Because historically, there was created this kind of suction of talent out of Ukraine. So there is a lot of famous names and talents that have become important artistic voices in the world, but they have been claimed by other countries, and mostly by Russia. So I'll just show a very quick extract from Wikipedia here, where you can see famous names, such as Sonia Delauney, who is written here still as a French artist. Then I don't know if you're but they are very famous names in the in our part of the world I was of ski Alexander so Alexander Exeter David Berluc and Kazimir Malevich were all part of the avant-garde movement and they were all Ukrainians who are now listed as Russian artists. And then we have the contemporary artists, really important voices as well, Ilya and Emilia Kabakov who actually were born in Dnipro. I was lucky enough to, during that five-year stay in Ukraine, I was lucky enough to take part in the film about them and visited their house and met them, well, met Emilia. And they are also written as... It says that they were born in Dnipropetrovsk, but still they are American artists from the Soviet Union. So just to show that, and there's much more, this was something that I just put together off the top of my head. There was this drainage of talent from Ukraine, which created a kind of emptiness for the next generation of artists to come. So the next generation, like Julia, they had to understand how to navigate themselves. What do they build their art on? There is a lot of topics, of course, but it seems that there is a kind of lack of foundation. foundation and especially also from the side of there is no real estate support for cultural activity not like it is in the West. So for that reason I just want to stress that I feel that Julia is doing a tremendous work work in creating, finding the language, the artistic language through which she communicates and applies her message to the West. And I think the key successful ingredients here are that she's fluent in social media, there was very very good skill and also the use of different various modern or not up-to-date media like virtual reality for example Yeah, to come back to this note about the drainage of talent, I also want to mention that right now, thanks to the war, there is a big movement going on where the Ukrainian names are being rightfully reestablished where they should be. And there was an interesting article in the Artnet where not only Ukrainian artists are now becoming to be called Ukrainian artists, but also subjects of the paintings. For instance, there was a case with the Degas portrait of a woman where it said that it was a Russian woman but actually it is a Ukrainian woman so they are renaming it and of course it seems like a small detail but it is all very important for reinforcing this groundwork this foundation which can give rise to the new voices of culture of Ukraine, which I'm sure are going to become much stronger from these years. And just to give you a very quick list of encyclopedia of the artists which are on my watch so this is this new generation of artists who are now actively working and also a lot of them are being shown in the West and I especially ask all the artists that are not on this list to not kill me. This is just my personal subjective view and I'm sure there's more artistic names and I would love to find out about them. And one of the names here is Maria Kulikovskaya, who you heard named as Masha. It is a frequent confusion because I'm also Maria, who is called Masha, and I always say that it's like William and Bill. Then people understand that it can be both. And Maria is another very important artistic voice who I think must be duly noted here even in our ode to Julia she has been doing a very important performative work for a long time and I was extremely happy to hear that after after my at the time when the war began and Julia I called her and after I think many attempts finally she agreed to leave her husband and come to me to Copenhagen and stay with us. I think it was a very wise decision because Julia has a young son. So when she came and I got a call from Alfred. Now we're not sure who got a call from whom. Alfred saw on Instagram that we have Julia. So it was the right time for him to reach out and say that the museum here would like to invite Julia for residence. We thought it was a fantastic scenario for Julia to be able to come and work. At that time, sitting in our house, she was showing me all the different works. It was very chaotic because we were at the same time saving a lot of other Ukrainians and managing their route through the border. So in the middle of the chaos, Julia was showing me the images of the chimneys and telling me that they are very important to her. I felt that the images looked beautiful, but I didn't understand how it can grow through me, because I didn't feel that I have any ways to continue this. So it was amazing to see that this was the place where the story continued, because there happened to be this factory nearby. But now I want to say also about how I met Julia. Oh, that's an important. So it's a sidestep. It's not about Julia, but I thought it was a very interesting illustration of the connection. So because Julia has produced a work in virtual reality, which I, when I founded my commercial gallery in Copenhagen, my first show included Julia's work. And we were so inspired. It was the first time we saw VR. And everybody we showed it to was extremely excited. It was really, it felt like this was a very interesting direction for the artist this inspired me and my husband to found a company which was a virtual reality production for artists in order to have a team which operates and enables artists to you know because if you if you're an artist and you think, oh, I wish I could create a work in VR, but how do you do that? Well, we made it possible, and thanks to that, we produced, we worked with a lot of famous names in the art world who produced their experiments or first VR artworks. So I just wanted, and one of these works was Christian Lammert's, which was then shown here in Linz as part of the exhibition. And it was thanks to Julia. So I thought it was a nice remark. But this was the first work through which I got introduced so we go from one dark space to another this little neon sign caught my sight also on Instagram sometime around 2015 and it really bothered me I felt like I kept on I screenshotted it and I kept on looking at it and it talked about it was warning about the war and I felt that me who was brought up in this generation of people injured by the war who said that it will never happen again. Even though we already had the attack of Crimea, it still felt surreal and it felt like, oh, it's just a military operation. It doesn't have anything to do with the reality that civilians might face. do with the reality that civilians might face. So this sign really got me, brought me to unease, let's say. And it bothered and bothered and bothered me. And then I felt I have to buy it. It was my only way, I think, to deal with the situation. I felt like maybe that was my way of controlling, uh, the, yeah, what's coming. So I contacted, uh, Julia and, uh, again on Instagram and I, uh, bought this work and I happily own it. And yeah, I was not, now it definitely has a different meaning to me. And I'll come back to that. So this is the virtual reality work which was shown in our gallery in Copenhagen, where Julia was there in 2016 sitting with a VR set and an image of the work was also printed. The other image I have to apologize I by mistake wrote March 2023 was just an automatic misprint it was March 2022 but this was when Julia came back to Denmark and a Danish newspaper Berlinske took an interview with her and she again was featuring with the backdrop of this work. I'm coming to an end of my presentation and I think I here tried to really map this little network around Yuliya and stretching out towards the world to show you or maybe resonate also with this important words that Julia said about fragility and the fragility, especially the fragility of memory and that it has to be revised and re-evaluated in order for it to last and i was thinking all of this group effort between all of us with martin and olena and alfred and genoveva we all you know we all find meaning in doing what we're doing and and what is this meaning and I thought that maybe if I may I can suggest that this meaning is that we we don't feel that we can change the conflicts we don't feel that we can change the world at large we don't feel that we can influence the war going on in Ukraine or elsewhere in the world but we can put our effort into into using art as a kind of immunization method which which goes back to this archives to to the memory to the experiences to the experiences of different cultures and delivers it to the societies. And that way, hopefully, ensures a prevention of the future tragedies. Thank you very much, Masha. We will continue with your presentations and the next one will be Olena Balloun. And I think you will also pick up the topic of fragility and especially one work, which was the last slide of Julia Belaeva's presentation. So we switch to the presentation of Olena Balloun. Maybe we can start without and we can continue in the middle of it, because I would actually start with saying thank you. Good evening everybody. I really want to thank the museum for the invitation and to Julia. It's a big honor for me to be here, to visit Julia's first solo exhibition in a European museum. It's a very special event. Before the war, I mainly worked with German artists. I have done my PhD on Ukrainian avant-garde, actually on the topics that Masha has mentioned, Kazimir Malevich and Sonia Delaunay. And I had friends in the Ukrainian art scene, curators, art historians and artists, and we met at the conferences and at the exhibitions and planned projects, but we postponed them to later. And after the war began, our ideas of later and about the future suddenly shifted and lots of ukrainian artists and colleagues came to western europe and since the beginning of the war i have done lots of projects with actually two artists which are very well known here and which were mentioned already it was maria kulikovska which i know since more than six years, and Julia Belaeva, whom I actually also met in Instagram for the first time. And so it has a big significance for me to be here today. So thank you very much. And I would like to compliment, first of all, the artists for this wonderful exhibition and of course the curators. Because what you guys did, you managed to show very precisely and very sensitively how Julia works, her method and what moves her. And you call the exhibition Fragile City and it is a very fitting title because it captures very well the material. It's ceramics and porcelain. And once Julia told me, you know, porcelain, it's like human beings. It's like people because it is very fragile, but at the same moment, it can be very hard. And she makes tile stoves out of ceramics and human beings out of porcelain and even weapons out of porcelain and all that is extremely fragile and it all all these pieces refer to current situation in Ukraine and this fragile is a very good metaphor what concerns Ukraine at the moment it's a very good metaphor for lots of cities in Ukraine. It's not only Kharkiv, it's not only Dnipro, it's not only Kiev, it's not only Bucha or Irpin or Borodyanka. It's a collective image of Ukrainian cities right now. And it is a mental state of the world actually at the moment. And Yulia works with very acute historical topics, historical subjects, and current events, which become historical. What I mean, you have seen that little girl, it's a work about Holodomor, the artificial famine which was caused in Ukraine by Stalin in the 30s where more than 5 million people died and practically every family in Ukraine has a tragical personal story mine as well about what happened then they have lost their relatives and that is what Russia is denying until today and the other thing so we have that statue of that little girl, which is in Ukrainian called Nizhka Yak Trostynachka, about the very thin legs, matchstick legs, thank you. And it is what her grandma called, how she talked about the children, how they looked like at that time. And at the same time, we see in another room in this exhibition, at that time. And at the same time we see in another room in this exhibition the tile stoves with people who endured Russian shelling in Azovstal with the speaker Volina who was talking to Ukrainians from that Azovstal shelter during the siege of the Russians there so and all the dramatic situations in Bucha and in Irpin and the combination of those historical and that current shows what is Russia actually doing now to Ukraine and it's not new so it's like causing genocide in Ukraine is not only now it has been also in the 30s and the fears and concerns of Ukrainians which we have, they have a historical background. And what is also very specific in Yulia's works, those images are not invented, those are not some abstract metaphors because the reliefs on the stoves and the girl, they are photographs made of real people from the archives or from the mass media, which we all have seen in the Instagram and in the press and so on. And they are really documented. And seeing is believing. If you see something, so it's like a reminder, look at that, what's happening, terrible things. look at that what's happening terrible things the difference to the images in the mass media is that the ceramics and the porcelain by Julia are very smooth they are so delicate with that glancing surface and somehow distractingly graceful and and at the same time they show quite awful scenarios, horrific things. And this is the effect. I don't know how it is in Austria. I think it's similar to Germany. We see very abstract things on the news about the war in Ukraine. And I agree, I also do not like to look at the bleeding bodies every day. But knowing what is happening is important, maybe in descriptions. But I see that on German TV it's also almost abolished that you see the real situation what is happening in Ukraine and looking at these pictures by Yulia which become from the photograph they become a real porcelain body it doesn't make the people shrink back. The one who wouldn't like to look at the images to tell it simple, Yul Julia's works are not bleeding. And the one who looks at them doesn't shrink back, but maybe becomes curious or interested and begins to read about what is there to see and begins to investigate maybe about those people, about those cities. And it is a very fine and reflective and respective approach to the war content which she does and very important information dissemination informing people in her artistic language what Masha has said today and what is also important all those things are very personal. There are not only mass media stories, there are real people behind these images. What I have already told, even if the photographs in the 30s were made by an Austrian, there is also a personal story about the grandmother of Julia, which is reflected in the title. And all the things that we have seen about Azovstal and so on, they have relatives, they have also some personal points. And because of one of such stories, I have actually got to know Julia. It was, we began to follow each other on Instagram, I think because of Maria Kulikovska. We began to follow each other on Instagram, I think because of Maria Kulikovska. And on the third day of this full-scale war, friends of mine were shot dead in their car. There were a family of five people with three kids. Only one girl survived. And one of the children died immediately. And the photograph of that girl was everywhere. It was in the Bild-Zeitung, in the Sun, in the New York Times. And it was one of the first children who were the victims of that full-scale invasion. Now there are thousands. And it was very distracting and it was a shock to understand they are dead. And on the other hand, it was very shocking and distracting to see it everywhere in the mass media. And then I have seen that Julia had posted also that photograph. And at the very beginning I was annoyed and then I was curious, why did she do that? And I asked her, did you know the family? And I think she was a bit surprised that there is somebody who knew him or her. And she said, no, but you know, I'm a mother and I wanted the people out there to know what is happening how terrible this crime is and somehow it was very very sincere it was very moving because she was very touched by what is happening and me as well and since that moment we began to stay in contact and although it was very tragic I appreciated very much that I got to know this very special person. And talking about Ukrainian politics and history, I would like to switch to another work that is shown here, and that is actually on the presentation, which we have already shown in the Quadrat Gallery with Martin the heroes of the city you have seen the video it is the 3d porcelain work and it shows young people on skateboards in Kiev in front of the Soviet obelisk honoring the hero city key of the hero city is like an honor title honoring the 12 cities in the Soviet Union which were defending, especially heroically defending in the Second World War. And secularization of the Second World War was extreme in the Soviet Union. And now it is also part of Russian propaganda because in that way they try to impose the common history with Russia. And the detachment from that topic was very important in Ukraine, especially in the 90s. But a complete denying of being part of that history, of that Soviet history, would be also wrong. Because Ukraine has a right to claim this part of its history of itself and not only with the colonial background. Because it was a republic which was immensely important in the defeating, for example, in the Second World War. It was the republic with the most victims in the Second World War in the Soviet Union, which Russia denies until today. And to make differential emancipation in that point is very important for Ukraine. And Yuliya has done it in a very clever way. And the work has become even prophetic. She has changed the language on that inscription. Officially, it was Russian. It was the official language in the Soviet Union. And it was quite interesting because on all the obelisks, on all the statues, it was Russian in the Soviet Union. By Julia, it was written in Ukrainian. As I was in October in Kiev, it was still in Russian. That's the picture. And a couple of weeks ago, they really changed it into Ukrainian now. So what she did was actually anticipating. And, well, language is like a symbol in that way because it's a strategic weapon now. A lot of Ukrainians didn't care much about what language they were talking to years ago, because there was a big Russification in the whole Soviet Union, and all the other languages were abolished, actually, from the educational sphere, from the institutions. It's not only the Soviet Union Ukraine has a long colonial history with Russia which lasted more than 300 years and through that 300 years Russia tried to abolish Ukrainian more than uh 130 times and it tells something about the language if it still exists for the one but banning it from the educational system from the book printing from the institutions and so on and so forth maybe restricting it maybe repressioning maybe making stupid jokes making it somehow unimportant and ridiculous, it has done something to Ukrainians. And there were lots of generations of people which grew up with Russian, because it was not safe to talk Ukrainian, or it was not cool, and so on and so forth. And some of them didn't care someday, because they thought they were Ukrainians, but they were talking another language, and it does something to an identity, because we express our knowledge, our feelings, our history, our poetry. We quarrel and mourn in a different way, in different languages. I grew up bilingual, Russian and Ukrainian, and I speak everyday German, so I know that I sound differently in every language. And it was the Russian narrative that we are the same people because we have the common history and we speak the same language. And now it became, it was not that harmless. And after this full-scale invasion, people started to think a bit differently. It is the language of the enemy, even if it's not the thought of the language. And Russia claims openly that their war is against the Ukrainian identity. They say if they would win, they would abolish, they would ban Ukrainian language, the name of Ukraine, and everything that causes some thought about a sovereign culture. And on the one hand, it's a protest. On the the other hand it's some new symbols that people consider of it and on the other hand you always think, okay, and how will we deal with that common culture that we had in the Soviet Union. And that was one of the interesting points. And if we see another slide, the next one, there is another symbol, this iron lady who has been to Kiev might recognize her. It's the Matyabatkevshchina, the motherland. It is a very Sovietic sculpture. It's monstrously big and it was quite hated by lots who were for the decommunization. And you see the reliefs, and you see all the symbols, and you see how Soviet does it look like, but from the beginning of that full-scale invasion, she became something else. She became like a kind of Statue of Liberty. We have the new civilization of the Soviet art now. And if you show the next slide, it has become very romantic. There are also some installations that the artists just put another light with a Ukrainian flag on it or with the Ukrainian coat of arms. So I think it has become some kind of a Statue of Liberty and you see it quite clearly with Yuliya who has done actually... really was it? Okay so you see it's maybe also prophetic talking about the Liberty and the result of that war, which hopefully will be good for Ukraine, and talking about protecting the Ukrainian culture because it's part of the identity. It's really fragile. Ukrainian art is fragile because art and culture, it is what makes us human beings. It's art, culture, and music, literature, education, theater. It turns population into individuals. And if we see some next slides, it was in Kiev, it was in October. It's really in the center of the city. You see how fragile it is. They have shelled on one morning at nine when people went to work. And there were really no soldiers and no tanks. Two missiles hit the center where six museums were damaged at different level. Two buildings of the university. The yellow building there is the library of the university, which you see inside there. And I think six or seven buildings of the Academy of Sciences in Ukraine. And if you... Thank you. That's the next slide. It's the biggest... It's the Hanenko Museum. It is one of the most important museums for Western and Eastern art. Actually, it's European heritage. There is Velazquez and Rubens and lots of names like Bellini, Italians, and the artists from the Netherlands, which are now packed. And the missile shelled 20 meters away from that museum. And on the next slide you see the other, that's the next room. Look at the ceiling. They could pack all the paintings and sculptures and put them to the hidden places, but they cannot pack the house. And the house is actually a masterpiece also by itself, because on the ceiling there are paintings by kotabinsky it's the yugan still in ukraine the finest art it was it's it's like a kunst villa and it it is what hurts because we are asking okay we have seen what happened to harkiv their museum is completely bombed and we fear a lot about about the culture and that's why I joined the Ukraine Art Aid Center, which Genoveva has mentioned. We are trying to save Ukrainian heritage. During the last year there were 960 museums, institutions, churches, libraries, also in archives, which we provided with different devices and packaging materials and generators and climate control and so on and so forth. Because by law, you cannot take the things outside of Ukraine. It is forbidden to evacuate it. The most you can do is to bring them for the exhibitions. What is a little bit different is contemporary art because heritage is always historic. I say it's not quite correct because you have to help people who are working right now because in the 30s we have already lost lots of heritage and lost lots of art. It shall not happen again. And by the way the porcelain factory where Julia works was also provided with help by that organization. And as we have done that exhibition at the Quadrat Gallery, there were porcelain cartridges, porcelain small weapons. And from selling it, Martin donated quite a lot to the Ukrainian Art Aid Center to buy those stuff to help Ukrainian museums and institutions. So I think that's it with my part of it. Thank you very much for your attention. Thank you, Olena. Hello? You brought also some information for us, for those who are interested. It is also on one of the tables next to the windows. Martin Quade. As I learned today, you also have Ukraine roots yeah hello I'm very happy to be here my name is Martin Quade I'm running the Quadrat Gallery in Berlin and yeah I have the chance to meet Julia not via Instagram in real in Kiev some years ago it was 2016 I think the first time we go with the gallery to Kiev art fair it was a new new art fair, including Kiev Art Week and so on. It was a very young fair, no one knows it and it was super interesting for me to take part. Then I came next year, 2017, 2018, 2019 and and so on just three times and i met yulia on the beginning and i met also a lot of friends of her young interesting artists we have a lot of fun i have the booth was full of nice interesting ukrainians artists i have until today a lot of contacts. And on the end of the last day of the art fair, Julia came to my booth because I was packing already, have a bit of stress and bring me a gift. And I take this gift with me today because he put a small NASA cosmonaut, it's a bit confusing because it's like the style of a Soviet cosmonaut with the NASA emblem in the front and he gave it to me like this, here Marin, it's a gift from me. Das ist ein Geschenk von mir. Es war eine super sympathische Situation. Ich denke, wir trinken nachher ein Bier, gehen in eine Bar. Nächstes Jahr haben wir uns getroffen und haben uns darüber gesprochen, eine Solarexhibition in Berlin zu machen. Aber wir hatten nicht so viel Glück, weil Corona kam. Es war also nicht möglich. Dann begann die Kriegsmacht, die Invasion 2022. Aber Julia hat mir gesagt, dass ich viele Freunde in I call a lot of friends of mine in Kiev. How are you? Are you in good condition? Is everything okay? Are you safe? And then I called Julia and she was in Copenhagen, I think, in this moment. I talked with Julia, maybe it's a good time now to start the exhibition, because you are now closer to Berlin. Then Julia said, okay, I go to Austria, so it's much better, maybe we can start to make the solo exhibition soon. And then I followed the works of Julia and I liked this porcelain bullets. The bullets, Julia started to make the bullets two, three years ago, so before the war. It was also shown in a group exhibition in Berlin, yeah, some years ago. So I start with the bullets, and so because of the situation, we think it was Julia to produce a lot of bullets, because bullets are used to kill people in the moment. 1,000. Yeah, 1,000 bullets, sorry, exactly. We produce 1, 1000 bullets, sorry. Exactly. We produced 1000 bullets. It was also not so easy because they are produced in the Kiev por But Julia knows the master like you from the porcelain manufacturer and asked him to produce some porcelain bullets for the exhibition. And we are lucky and they produced the bullets and the husband of Julia, Sergei brings the whole bullets in a big suitcase through the border to Berlin to the gallery. So it was not so funny for him when he crossed the border with thousands of bullets but on the end they clarified that it's just a porcelain bullet. Yeah and then by way, it was very interesting that I met Olena Balloon, because we already planned this exhibition and I want to have some first bullets to take a look, show it to clients and Julia told me, yeah, Olena Balloon, a friend of mine, can bring bullets to Berlin. Okay, so I think, okay, when Olena came to Berlin, so it's cool, bring me some bullets. And we met together in front of the Reichstag, Bundestag, because Olena was working nearby and I was also visiting one of my artists Timo Klöppel who was helping for the restoration of the Quadriga in Elisabeth Lüdershaus. It is very close to the Bundestag. And so I asked Olena, hey it's a good chance also to see the work of Timur Klöppel. Besides, it's now a very nice art television interview in the place we was. But in Bundestag, they have security level like on the airport. So when Olena bring me the bullets, so we have to go with the bullets through this kind of security check. So they are wondering why I have bullets with me. But then we can clarify it. We open it very carefully. This guy, you remember, ask us, please open it carefully. And then I have a very nice talk with Olena and ask her what they're doing I don't know you before and told me that is she's art historian like my dad and we talked a lot a lot a lot and I asked her why maybe maybe please do you like two works of Julia? Because I'm planning an exhibition and I need a curator. Kind of this. And Olena was very interesting and we talked and we decided to make it together. And I am very thankful till today for one of the best texts also you wrote for Julia in three languages. We had it. I never had before texts in three languages, in Ukrainian, English and German. Thank you, Olena, for your super support because of Julia. Thank you, Martin. Do you know what we said is we have my bag in that security thing and we looked at each other and said simultaneously, sorry there is art in the bag but it looks like weapons but it's art and he looked at us and then okay show your art the same thing as when when I tried to take one of the bullets really was me on a plane to degree Greece and it's not it's not it's not working because everything what looks like weapon cannot leave you cannot take it with you to the plane. So I have to damaged it before I take it with me One bullet I have to damage it because the guy on the airport want to keep it for him Exactly and the problem is I've I'm super careful with this bullets I packed it very well, but on the end, when you try to break it, it's very hard. There was blood, yeah. Martin Quart is blood, we have to say. Yes, on the bullet. I have it in a special place in my flat between my private collection, this broken bullet from Julia. But it was a very special exhibition was with Julia Believer and I'm very happy and proud also to represent her in in Berlin in my gallery and yeah and day after tomorrow there's another participation of Julia in exhibition. And in May there will be a garden exhibition with Julia's sculptures and so on and so on. And I'm also very happy that I have good two friends of mine, also supporters and collectors of Julia. and collectors of Julia. Marek Klaassen is here from Berlin, the founder of Art Facts Net and supporter of Julia and Takien, good friend of mine and also art collector and owner of one of the best Chinese restaurants in Berlin. Thank you for coming. From Berlin. And Marek came with a motorbike from Berlin to Linz. Enough. Thank you, Martin Quade. We are happy it was just your blood. Thank you very much, all of you. I think we got a very deep insight also in understanding more about Ukraine, Ukraine origins, which was quite interesting. I think also Stravinsky, also for music, he is Ukraine. So we learned a lot, I think, also about what makes identity. This was a very interesting point also, Olena, besides the topic which is maybe the general one, fragility, right? It's a topic in your work and we experienced it is so touching and it could be also a notion to understand the conflict much better in this term and of course language is a big issue to claim their own identity. Also, Yulia, you were born in a Russian-speaking family, right? My family, my mother and father, they meet each other in Murmansk, Russia, but my father from Kharkiv and my mother from Vinnyts a region. It's a strange story. Oh, yeah. And now you raise your child in Ukraine. Yeah. And as we experienced, you have a lot of school, online schooling also in Ukraine, right? Yeah. So this is a very interesting point to how to raise the children of those people who experienced now this conflict since the conflict also in Crimea. Yeah, I would like to start a second round, but our second round could be just a much briefer round before we open up our panel also for your questions, because we had quite intense presentations and I would like to invite you to comment to Linz. It's the director of the Kyiv Art Fair, Zhenia Berezhinsky and Ludmila Brzezinski because they support Julia a lot in Kiev and they also give me kind of tip Martin take a look of this artist so I also have to thank them that Julia is also in my program and that I know her. So they cannot join us today. But I also just want to mention them because they make it possible, the Kiev Art Fair and the Kiev Art Week. It was a super great fair. It's not happening now. We hope after this war it will continue. I think as a comment and a question I could maybe just steer us in the direction of touching upon Olena's experience and also maybe a little bit of the future. You said that now since the start of war you worked already with two Ukrainian artists and how do you feel the war influenced the exposure of Ukrainian art specifically in Berlin and what do you think is the long term effect of it? And then this question can be, you can jump into the question. Thank you, Masha. Masha, it's a very good question. Thank you for that. Because, you know, before the war, working on Ukrainian topics was like being a kind of an activist. It was every time I was talking about Ukrainian art, it was like some kind of a demonstration. It doesn't matter if it's contemporary or historical. And if you do some course on Ukrainian modernism and so on and so forth, until 2022, it was like, yeah, but that's Russian. It was a very common state of view that people were looking on it through the Russian glasses. And after the war it changed a lot because for the first time you had something like a shift of a perspective because people got very interested. It was like a crash course on everything in Ukrainian. It was like a crash course on everything in Ukrainian. And it was taken very positively because people became very curious. It was a pity that actually the war was needed to make Ukraine interesting. That's tragical. But nevertheless, I'm very glad that we've got that interest now. And I see that Ukrainian contemporary artists are very exposed in Germany, in Berlin, in Munich, and also the curators. And they are taken very seriously. And they are also... I was talking to the former director of the Mestky Arsenal, Yulia Vaganova, and she said to me that she is now often asked as an expert. Ukrainian curator as an expert it was not possible two years ago because they were taken a bit provincially maybe and I think it's both. Ukrainians hesitated a very long time and Ukrainian government didn't do much also for Ukrainian culture to tell the truth it's what you were talking about it was a vacuum in Dnipro but not not only if it was not Kiev it was different. For the contemporary art and culture, you can maybe explain it with economic problems, but not always. And now it is very different because they see that culture is crucial. It is what it is about also in that war of the identity. And I hope the perspective is very positive because there are more and more new names which are new to Europe but not so new in Ukraine. They show very good art. They are very qualified. They don't have to hide themselves because they are From you listening to our panel discussion, so you are invited Hello Martin told me he had a short cigarette break That Julius her husband cannot leave the country anymore and I think this is something because we have seen him in Martin's gallery at opening and I think this is that brings it even closer and this is something we should mention that no male can leave the country up to the age of 65 anymore. He can but he needs updated documents, military documents. It takes maybe two, three months, I don't know. I hope next time. Я просто хотіла сказати про голос України. Україна втім має голос, який відчувається, але ціна – це зберігатися. live with this a lot of questions and doubts why does someone die and at this moment i have so many opportunities at the same time but i still choose to be an artist i made my choice a long time ago glory to ukraine Glory to Ukraine! Masha, will you continue with your institutions and with the program or also personally? I think this the Artsvit art center in Dnipro we were about to actually convert it into a museum of contemporary art in Dnipro which would be a historical breakthrough for the region it was planned just before the war and our team has created a design or just a draft of design and later the idea was that then the local architects would, there would be an open call so they could also create the ideas and then the best idea would be chosen. So the idea of our team at Fausco from Denmark was to build on top of... It was a historical building like a courtyard which we see here exactly in this museum. So a very similar scenario. And the team suggested that in order to allow for the contemporary practices they would build a light structure on top of the historic building. So I was shocked to come and see this structure already built here in Linz. And I thought, I photographed it a lot. And I thought that this is a very good little seed to continue our hope that this museum in Dnipro will be built and they will start a new chapter in the Ukrainian cultural life. As to the artists abroad, I think I would like to see that artistic practice of Ukraine goes beyond the membrane of the war and goes beyond being seen through the prism of the war, but rather becomes a norm for the Western culture to hear and see Ukrainian artistic voices as part, as their own, as we see it with all the other cultures. Right now contemporary art, we like to say, has no borders. It actually does have borders. It's mainly because contemporary art is very western but we hope that Ukraine becomes part of that ecosystem as on equal terms Thank you Martin you will continue with your Ukrainian connections? Yes, sure. How will we continue our institution? Also to find an end for all of us, unless you have another question, because we are quite ahead in time we will definitely continue in one hand with artists in residence we are just figuring out as which one would like to work in in links and also we have a discussion also with the mountain ceramics just to figure out as which one could it be and and once again, I was really very much shocked to see the photograph of the Western Art Museum in Kiev because I left Kiev the day before. I didn't see the photographs and my hotel was two streets above the place. So it's really something you need also some luck but a few people we are not that lucky, that me. And we're going to Kyiv once again at the end of May so to because we founded the cooperation with the Arsenal which is an amazing space for contemporary art in Kyiv and we will also meet my colleague from the National Museum of Art in Kiev. We're also doing a cooperation with them. So we will bring over one exhibition, the Arsenal did, maybe in spring next year. And they will take over an exhibition we did. The same happens with the National Museum. So there's definitely, there's a way. So we will proceed with, I guess, with many projects. Also in terms of the materials, as I like that there's also tradition of not only porcelain because also the porcelain manufacturer you mentioned did start with ceramics. It was in fact a ceramic manufacturer. So we will deal with this material. This is very important to us and so I'm very sure there's also there will also be a way to deal with this company and we bring them somehow together with the Monta ceramics but I also want to use the chance to thank you once again to the Monta ceramics because they did really a great job they are here for example yeah, definitely. So, but just to give you an idea, for example, these two masterpieces Julia did with the Gmunteseramics, this has a value, I mean, a material value of about, we're talking about between 150 and 200,000 euros. So this really stuff, this is really something else. And they did it. They said, that's because we came with this idea. We showed them the pictures, the photographs and they said, okay, we will do it. Don't worry about it. We will figure it out. It looks like a challenge. It was a challenge. It became more complicated with the second version. So I wanted to ask to do a third version but I'm not really sure if I could recommend this. But they did really a great job and I have to thank the ceramic master Roland Hüttenmeier is already here, to Steffi Hinterwirth, thank you very much. And I was also thanked to our production team, but it's also necessary. One day they did, of course, we have the artists, she did the artistic work. Then we had the people from the Gmontner Ceramics who did the ceramic tiles. And then we had an amazing production team. I didn't really think about that it will work out at the end, but it worked out very well at the end. So I have to thank you very much also to you guys you did really great job and as I mentioned as I'm very sure that the this master works from julia we go to kiev as well I will recommend this to take over our exhibition maybe we can see we can transport the the fireplaces to Kiev quite soon. And then I guess my production team has to go to Kiev. I hope you will do it. They told me it takes a week at least. But Kiev is a wonderful city. And of course Ukraine is a wonderful country, I have to say. So this was my word. Thank you also to my friend Alexander Köck from the Gmunt & Schor Amix and thank you everybody for coming over here. Also Martin Quade, it was really very nice meeting you also in person. We also know each other from Instagram since quite a long time. So now we've got the chance to meet each other personally. Marcia, thank you very much. My dearest friend. Thank you also Genoveva for doing this panel and also doing the curatorship for the exhibition. My name is mentioned, but it was her work and they always say, just deny my name, but she did the show. She is the curator of the exhibition. Julia, you are part of our family. What shall I say? It's a pity that your family couldn't come. We didn't get the chance. But they were here several times. It was very nice. And yeah, you're part of our family. So I guess you feel well. And Ollina, thank you very much also for coming over here. It was really a pleasure having you here. And let's proceed helping each other. That's the thing, this is what we have to do. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I think there's just one word I would like to, since we finished now our talk, Olena, maybe you can say just a brief thing about the help which can be done. Thank you. Thank you. Ukraine Art Aid Center is actually an international network which is trying to save Ukrainian heritage as much as possible. Because I have said it is not allowed to evacuate abroad. And it's a network which is active, which was founded in Germany, but it is also, it spreads out to Poland, Austria, because we work with ICOM Austria and with the OSCE from Vienna, because they help our trucks to pass the border and also Switzerland. And it works like we work with Ukrainian transport company. They take the humanitarian goods, which we collect in Berlin. die wir in Berlin sammeln. Wir haben sie von Donationen gekauft und die deutsche Bundesregierung für Kultur und Medien hat letztes Jahr eine große Menge davon bezahlt. Jetzt haben sie aber aufgehört. Wir haben also momentan keine Unterstützung von der deutschen Regierung. Von Anfang des Jahres an sagen sie, sie wollen noch mehr als 3 Millionen Euro geben, from the German government at the moment. And from the beginning of the year, they say, yes, we're considering to give you even more than 3 million, but at the moment they didn't, and there are already 3 months passed. And now we're trying to collect the donations. And if you would like to help somehow, it will be, I think each help is very welcome now. What we send to Ukraine is packaging materials for museums, is climate control, because the goods are storaged partly in the buildings which are actually not done or made for art. And if they become too shimmer, humidity is a very big problem and also generators because Russians are shelling the energetic system and what we cannot pack we try to digitalize. There are several projects also with archives because you know from each war the one who wants to conquer the land they just try to um to burn all the archives they can because they it's a sad story from from the past and we try also to digitalize the buildings and the monuments and this is where actually all the things go we have a big report that is now on different websites if you're interested in that just let me know and we will be very helpful if you would like also to spread that information because we have some flyers here and also spreading the information is already a help so thank you very much for a chance to let you know about that okay thank you very much for a chance to let you know about that okay thank you very much we have prepared some drinks and also some for you and you're very welcome to just stay with us a bit an exchange have a nice evening